Quote:
Originally Posted by CDSmith
You're both intelligent enough to know what a lame excuse the whole "it's gofuckyourself" argument is.
Once in a while isn't it nice to just have a discussion about something and that's it?.... just a discussion.
Since poor Jayeff passed away I find less and less of them here, and it's pretty sad.
As far as THIS discussion goes (such as it is) I think you're both at least partically correct. While most civilizations throughout history did work hard at covering the staples of food and shelter (no question about that), many DID however hold the making of booze, bouza, grain alchohol or wine-like fermentations as a high priority. Some historians theorize that alchohol shows up in history dating back to prehistoric times.
I can see it being so. Back then I'm sure people used all sorts of concoctions and substances to "make life a little more bearable." Think of all the eras in known history. In the time of the Roman empire the booze was certainly flowing. In the wild wild west I'm sure some travellers must have rode many days out of their way to hit a settlement so's they could wash the dust from their throats with a few shots of deadeye. Such towns would have had to make it a priority to have alchohol on hand or risk being shot to pieces no doubt.
Straying from the topic, but I can't imagine the number of people that wouldn't exist were it not for the presence of alcholol. :D Seriously, none of you have heard at least one unwilling parent say "I was drunk" and 9 months later BAM. I know tons.
I wouldn't say booze was of the highest priority in history, but as people were growing/making/processing their foodstuffs for winter etc I have no doubt they made it a point to put aside a little extra so they'd have something to drink, party, or otherwise perform their dance rituals with.
I mean really, what's a good dance ritual without a little goof juice?
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i can understand if someone says something like "XYZ MIGHT have played a role in..." but thats not what was said.
What was said specifically is that mankind entered into the Neolithic period BECAUSE of the desire to ferment grain and create alcohol... namely beer.
i have several wine sites and written quite a bit about the history of wine, the chronology of wine on this planet, its use etc. I am fairly familiar with the history of alcohol and wine. its origins are murkey and HIGHLY desputed... and there no evidence to support the idea that alcohol existed in the sense that we're talking about until they were several millinea into the neolithic period... not at its start.
for those not playing along... that means people had already began to make the transition from migratory hunter/gatherers to sedentary people, settle, grow food and domesticate animals for a couple thousand years BEFORE alcohol was discovered, deliberately made and consumed
furthermore, evidence of the use of wine predates beer by several thousand years. and the topic in the context of this conversation is "grain" and "beer" were the root causes for people settling down and developing agricultural communities. beer came very late into the "alcohol" game and its consumption. honey, rice and grapes were used to make wines WELL before "beer" was discovered.
a more painful fact to accept for "D" is that the start of the Neolithic period predates the first evidence of wine by a couple thousand years.
i really didn't think this stuff was debated or something that was a matter of opinion. its a simple matter of archiological record and what has either been proven to be fact or what the known evidence suggests.
having a bizarre idea and pointing to a bizarre website with an agenda to back it up is weak and pathetic, and had considered that to be self evident... hence the redicule, being that its so obviously impossible and so obviously not a "widely held belief" as was claimed.
