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Old 06-08-2012, 08:16 AM   #1
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I did your homework for you fris.

Hey Fris

You seemed a bit unsure/vague/dodged the question about the licencing issue with your wordpress developers pack. So i've done you and the people who have bought this from you a favour and done your homework for you. Here's a selection of the replys ive recieved so far.

Quote:
Sorry, had not had my coffee when I answered that. He does not have permission, but there is little we can do. We have deleted him from our customers so he no longer has access to official updates and support. This guy is nothing but a crook. Thanks for the email. We were made aware of him early this week.

--
Grant Griffiths
http://headwaythemes.com
Quote:
We do not give permission to anyone to resell our product. All of our
sales go through http://deluxethemes.com We offer forum/email support
as well as free updates for customers and rely on theme sales to
continue development.

Thanks for checking on this.

Ryan
Quote:
Hi Anna,

Thank you for that. No this guys hasn't any permission to resell our products. We run an affiliate program and that's the only way for someone to resell our themes. I guess what he does is download our themes put them in a zip file and distribute them. Problem is that we keep documentation in our members only forum and also people buying his deal don't have access to monthly theme updates / feature additions http://www.cssigniter.com
This may not be our industry you are hurting fris. But i thought GFY was better than this, I thought our community was better than this.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:18 AM   #2
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i thought something was fishy with that sale
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:22 AM   #3
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When will I learn?
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:33 AM   #4
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The things that make you go hummmmmm.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:39 AM   #5
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:43 AM   #6
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so do we get a refund ?
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:43 AM   #7
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Owned

Quote:
He does not have permission... This guy is nothing but a crook.
Quote:
We do not give permission to anyone to resell our product.
Quote:
Thank you for that. No this guys hasn't any permission to resell our products.

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Old 06-08-2012, 08:44 AM   #8
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I thought this went without saying...
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:53 AM   #9
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When will I learn?
This really surprises people?
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:53 AM   #10
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You call it snitching.. I call it protecting people like myself who run small busineses.
You don't see the connection. But this is no different to content theft that we all cry about on a daily basis. It's just not YOUR industry.

Ill fight for anyone whose trying to earn an honest living. And I will equaly challenge those that choose to earn their money off the backs of other peoples hard work.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:56 AM   #11
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what fris did was WRONG period. he should refund all sales
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:59 AM   #12
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I doubt he replies
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:02 AM   #13
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:06 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by barcodes View Post
Hot chickie.

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:09 AM   #15
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Hot chickie.

I'd totally wine and dine her.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:18 AM   #16
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To be totally honest I bought one. When I saw it I thought, good deal. I didn't even think about the licensing which was stupid on my part. As soon as I saw the contents I asked myself if he really purchased all the stuff or what. Honestly, I should have known better about the licensing. For some reason, since I always thought of him as a plugin/theme developer, I didn't even think about it, idk.

Could be a misunderstanding on my part so again, I am not implying anything towards Fris and I apologize if this is taken the wrong way. He helps everyone on here out and knows how we stand on stuff like that so I don't think that's the case. Just relaying my initial response at the time. He also offered buyers an invoice via email later on so I don't think he would have done that if he thought anything was wrong on his part.

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:26 AM   #17
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He has definitely purchased them. And they do offer developer's licenses. Whoever thought that up is the retard, if you ask me.

These companies (especially the Theme Frameworks) sell developer licenses that specifically state that I can set my clients up with the theme framework. They don't get support from the other company, but from me.

It's a bit of a grey area, considering also that these themes are typically required to carry the same GPL license that Wordpress carries. WP and the guy who puts out the Thesis theme had a big, knock down drag out a few years back.

As he said, they can't do anything about it, but cancel his membership, because he's technically not breaking their "developers" license.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:27 AM   #18
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so if i install this on a website and the developer finds out it going to be my fault ?
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:35 AM   #19
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Its a hard one - I know that wpmudev.org for example does this - They release the plug ins and themes as GPL and sell support etc.

They also get real pissy if you distribute their stuff - However as it is GPL they cant do a thing.

They are using GPL because it benefits them, but don't like the flip side.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:36 AM   #20
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I linked all the providors to the thread in question so they could see themselves and there would be no doubt or error. And heres another reply

Quote:
From: MOJO-Themes


Anna,

No he does not have the reselling right because that does not exist. This is the ugly side of our industry. We apologize for this but we really look down upon these things. The thing you are noto going to be able to get is support and updates. So a lot of those theme won't even work on the current version of WordPress.

Thanks!
-MOJO Support
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:42 AM   #21
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Only a crook would suggest the OP is snitching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barcodes View Post
To be totally honest I bought one. When I saw it I thought, good deal. I didn't even think about the licensing which was stupid on my part. As soon as I saw the contents I asked myself if he really purchased all the stuff or what. Honestly, I should have known better about the licensing. For some reason, since I always thought of him as a plugin/theme developer, I didn't even think about it, idk.
I am in the same boat, except it did fleetingly cross my mind that he may not have the rights to resell them. Not sure why we went ahead and made the purchase.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:42 AM   #22
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Its already been to court as I recall that you can't claim any copy rights on themes built for wordpress... being that the themes constitute such a tiny fraction of the whole.

However, it did strike me as being very poor judgement to be selling the work of others.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:45 AM   #23
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You call it snitching.. I call it protecting people like myself who run small busineses.
You don't see the connection. But this is no different to content theft that we all cry about on a daily basis. It's just not YOUR industry.

Ill fight for anyone whose trying to earn an honest living. And I will equaly challenge those that choose to earn their money off the backs of other peoples hard work.
You work for FuckYouCash, and biggy, right? The guy that closed down the MelissaMidwest affiliate program so affiliates don't have access to their stats or how much money their owed. Just checking, since you're interested in honesty and theft.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:45 AM   #24
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He has definitely purchased them. And they do offer developer's licenses. Whoever thought that up is the retard, if you ask me.

These companies (especially the Theme Frameworks) sell developer licenses that specifically state that I can set my clients up with the theme framework. They don't get support from the other company, but from me.

It's a bit of a grey area, considering also that these themes are typically required to carry the same GPL license that Wordpress carries. WP and the guy who puts out the Thesis theme had a big, knock down drag out a few years back.

As he said, they can't do anything about it, but cancel his membership, because he's technically not breaking their "developers" license.
A "gray area" would apply whether a developers license was purchased or not. Themes as a whole are not required to be GPL licensed. The portion that uses WordPress -- usually the php files are -- but not the html, css, images, js, etc... Otherwise, everyone selling themes and plugins here on GFY, could have one person purchase and then give it away to everyone else for free. One person could purchase the package from fris, and then give it away to everyone else. That's how the GPL works.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:52 AM   #25
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Dammit. I just wanted to help the puppies.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:54 AM   #26
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One person could purchase the package from fris, and then give it away to everyone else. That's how the GPL works.
That sounds like a dandy.

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:55 AM   #27
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A "gray area" would apply whether a developers license was purchased or not. Themes as a whole are not required to be GPL licensed. The portion that uses WordPress -- usually the php files are -- but not the html, css, images, js, etc... Otherwise, everyone selling themes and plugins here on GFY, could have one person purchase and then give it away to everyone else for free. One person could purchase the package from fris, and then give it away to everyone else. That's how the GPL works.
Which was my point and one made by others. These are all released as GPL. So yes, technically fris could give them all away and sell them. Yes, they frown upon it. Yes, they don't want it to be done. But, there's nothing stopping fris from doing what he is doing. Especially since they have more expensive "developers" licenses they take this into account.

fris paid for the right to do this. He might be a bit more liberal with who he calls a client (ie. anyone who give him $50), but that doesn't mean he can't do what he did.

This has been hashed out back and forth for years now in the WP circles. The developer's license with the added cost was one of the ORIGINAL RESPONSES to this sort of thing going down.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:55 AM   #28
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Dammit. I just wanted to help the puppies.
lol - I forgot about them....
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:56 AM   #29
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Dammit. I just wanted to help the puppies.
Exactly, what about the fucking puppies?
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:00 AM   #30
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Which was my point and one made by others. These are all released as GPL.
Your point was false. Themes are not required to be GPL, as a whole. Only the php portion of the themes.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:02 AM   #31
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Also, its important to note that the bulk of people building themes, plugins etc for Wordpress aren't aware of what rights they do and don't have and make very wrong assumptions. Everyone is going to get pissy when they find their footer links are stripped out of their free themes, but it doesn't mean the person using the theme doesn't have the legal right to do it.

So just asking a bunch of people how they feel about it, doesn't make them right either.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:03 AM   #32
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:06 AM   #33
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sounds super fucked up, but i'd really like to hear what fris has to say about this
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:21 AM   #34
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i'd really like to hear what fris has to say about this
co-sign.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:40 AM   #35
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I think it's a matter of how he structured the deal.

If he has a developer license for theme X or plugin Y, he can then legally set up theme X or plugin Y for his clients and charge them whatever he wants for that. (Assuming the license for theme X and plugin Y is like most of the developer licenses I've seen so far).

So he could offer for example 100 wordpress installs for $50 and give his clients a wide variety of theme and plugin choices.

However, I have no idea how he structured his offer that sparked this controversy so I won't comment on that specific situation.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:46 AM   #36
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Looks like it's been going on for a while.

http://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=17867564&postcount=16
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:50 AM   #37
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Well i had no idea either... And nobody would give me an answer.
SO i asked the companies involved to take a look at the thread/deal themselves.
It's a fair request...

THose are not my words that have been posted. They are the words from the companies whose products are in this package. I have not altered anything. I have not put words in thier mouths... i simply linked them to the thread and said I was concidering purchasing this, and did the OP have permisssion/rights to sell. Those are the answers I recieved.

It could be Fris is spot on.. and every company ive contacted is giving me mis-information. I am simply repeating what they are saying to me...

As you can imagine my ICQ has been red hot since i posted this.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:53 AM   #38
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If someone is able to sell something that is given away for free I don't see what the problem is lol. But I'm not really sure what the hell this is all about anyhow.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:53 AM   #39
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SO i asked the companies involved to take a look at the thread/deal themselves.
It's possible some of those companies don't understand either. Here's a good explanation, with some FAQs on the subject from one of the main WP developers.
http://markjaquith.wordpress.com/201...-of-wordpress/
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:55 AM   #40
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Hey Fris

You seemed a bit unsure/vague/dodged the question about the licencing issue with your wordpress developers pack. So i've done you and the people who have bought this from you a favour and done your homework for you. Here's a selection of the replys ive recieved so far.







This may not be our industry you are hurting fris. But i thought GFY was better than this, I thought our community was better than this.
Cunt Police in Full Force!
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:55 AM   #41
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silence from fris is VERY telling
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:58 AM   #42
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Which was my point and one made by others. These are all released as GPL. So yes, technically fris could give them all away and sell them. Yes, they frown upon it. Yes, they don't want it to be done. But, there's nothing stopping fris from doing what he is doing. Especially since they have more expensive "developers" licenses they take this into account.

fris paid for the right to do this. He might be a bit more liberal with who he calls a client (ie. anyone who give him $50), but that doesn't mean he can't do what he did.

This has been hashed out back and forth for years now in the WP circles. The developer's license with the added cost was one of the ORIGINAL RESPONSES to this sort of thing going down.
isnt that how GPL works?

Theirs nothing saying I cant do that, if you dont wanna release a plugin or theme under GPL, then dont.

But I do have to thank Anna, being the rat she is, emailing every provider on the list of options I had.

Ive always been a supporter of her work, dont know why someone would go out of the way to contact every person, when if she looked up each solution and each product is GPL, which states, I can do whatever I want with the final product. (even reselling).

If you dont wanna be a wordpress product under the GPL, then dont do it.

How would anna like If i emaiiled all her clients from her portfolio? Im sure she wouldnt like it.

But if she wants to go out of her way to be a shit distruber, then whats fine, its up to her.

Maybe beflre you do, you might wanna read up on the GPL and what it allows.



I can be reached via email if anyone has any questions as im not at home and wont be visiting this until monday, so replies are all welcome.

even anna who I have no illwill towards even though she did contact everyone out of spite.

I was going to post a url to the GPL, but im sure you know it since you already read it before contacting them right?

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:02 AM   #43
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You call it snitching.. I call it protecting people like myself who run small busineses.
You don't see the connection. But this is no different to content theft that we all cry about on a daily basis. It's just not YOUR industry.

Ill fight for anyone whose trying to earn an honest living. And I will equaly challenge those that choose to earn their money off the backs of other peoples hard work.
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You work for FuckYouCash, and biggy, right? The guy that closed down the MelissaMidwest affiliate program so affiliates don't have access to their stats or how much money their owed. Just checking, since you're interested in honesty and theft.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:09 AM   #44
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Hey Fris

You seemed a bit unsure/vague/dodged the question about the licencing issue with your wordpress developers pack. So i've done you and the people who have bought this from you a favour and done your homework for you. Here's a selection of the replys ive recieved so far.







This may not be our industry you are hurting fris. But i thought GFY was better than this, I thought our community was better than this.
Post proof that you purchased your copy of Photoshop or STFU, slag.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:10 AM   #45
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If Wordpress themes fall under GPL, does that mean Fris is off the hook or on a different hook?
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:10 AM   #46
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Major fatty
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:14 AM   #47
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isnt that how GPL works?

Theirs nothing saying I cant do that, if you dont wanna release a plugin or theme under GPL, then dont.

But I do have to thank Anna, being the rat she is, emailing every provider on the list of options I had.

Ive always been a supporter of her work, dont know why someone would go out of the way to contact every person, when if she looked up each solution and each product is GPL, which states, I can do whatever I want with the final product. (even reselling).

If you dont wanna be a wordpress product under the GPL, then dont do it.

How would anna like If i emaiiled all her clients from her portfolio? Im sure she wouldnt like it.

But if she wants to go out of her way to be a shit distruber, then whats fine, its up to her.

Maybe beflre you do, you might wanna read up on the GPL and what it allows.



I can be reached via email if anyone has any questions as im not at home and wont be visiting this until monday, so replies are all welcome.

even anna who I have no illwill towards even though she did contact everyone out of spite.

I was going to post a url to the GPL, but im sure you know it since you already read it before contacting them right?

I asked a question... you didnt seem willing to answer it.. So i had to search for answers myself. Thiose are the answers i received.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:17 AM   #48
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I asked a question... you didnt seem willing to answer it.. So i had to search for answers myself. Thiose are the answers i received.
I was confused.. Obv the companies involved are all confused and giving misinformation.
Ill hook yuo all up and you can discuss it yourself.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:21 AM   #49
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You know my ICQ has been red hot since this thread started...MOst unrelated to this.

I think you have a lot of shit to clean up.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:25 AM   #50
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If Wordpress themes fall under GPL, does that mean Fris is off the hook or on a different hook?
He is well within his rights to do so.

Again, the WP community addressed this TWO YEARS AGO now.

If you released something with a GPL license, anyone who you give or sell your software too has the right to distribute it in any way they choose.
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