Texas Wants to Execute Man Who Killed Home Intruder Who Turned Out to Be SWAT Member

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Again, the entire point is to catch the person with the drugs.

Great, your neighbors were all charged - but how many of them were found guilty and went to prison?

All of them were convicted of some charge or another. You don't go to prison for first offence pot charges in Canada. At least not back when this happened.

They don't have "one guy" outside watching the house. You have to watch the house for days to figure out who is in it, and what their routine is going to be,.

And it still doesn't matter because they want to catch him in the house with the drugs, not find the drugs without him there.

I am so glad you know all the intricacies of police work. With the big military surplus items the police forces are getting these days in the US it would take 5 minutes to see how many people were in the house using thermal imaging.

http://www.bullard.com/V3/products/t...icles/0002.php
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ered-boat.html

You keep missing the point that the method they used to serve the warrant was flawed. I don't care if they served the warrant while he was there or while he was away, you can't serve it by busting through windows like a common criminal. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD. Cops serving a no-knock warrant through a window are most likely going to get shot.

A home invasion doesn't go through a window, it goes through the front door. You want to gain access for multiple people as quickly as you can, not have them climb through a window one at a time.

Ho many burglars do you know that just come right through the front door? Do you think if they would have knocked on the front door and announced they were police with a search warrant things would have went a little better? I do. Coming through a window unannounced makes you look like a thief and ends up getting people shot.

How do you not understand this?

Which is going to be better and safer - Police catching him off guard while he is sleeping or doing a full felony stop with an armed man in public?

I understand that logic perfectly, I wasn't questioning that. I was questioning why you said "the search warrant was for the house not the car." Where the hell did I suggest they search the car? Your comment made no sense and still makes no sense. You reply to one thing by going off on a tangent about something completely irrelevant to what was being discussed.

Typically police do a no knock raid when the suspect has a violent history or is expected to be armed. My guess is that this guy was always armed and police knew it.

All the more reason to not enter the building through a window like a common burglar.

It sounds odd they went though a window from a tactical view point the would want to enter the house from multiple access points and we don't know the details.

I agree, pretty fucking stupid to go through a window.

I am pretty confident they all yelled police and yelled out that they had a warrant when they entered

Well you can assume all you want but that doesn't make it true. The whole purpose of these retarded no-knock warrants is to gain surprise and not make your presence immediately known to the suspect. They paid the price this time. And so did the guy who was chilling in bed who hadn't broke any laws and had no reason to be willing to throw his life away just so he could cut down a row of cops.

[bronco67]

The bottom line is, police departments are trying to find ways to use that fun new military equipment so breaking down doors and harassing homeowners is the easiest way to play their silly cowboy games.

SWAt raids have increased by 1400 percent since the 80's...and that's only with data up to the year 2000.

This shit needs to stop and a good start would be ending the war on drugs.

[Robbie]

The most surprising thing about this whole story is where I see Rochard being quoted as only 46 years old.
I thought he was a LOT older than I am. lol Turns out I'm way older than him.

I guess looks can be deceiving.

Maybe change your diet, get a good exercise regimen or something?

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by bronco67

The bottom line is, police departments are trying to find ways to use that fun new military equipment so breaking down doors and harassing homeowners is the easiest way to play their silly cowboy games.

SWAt raids have increased by 1400 percent since the 80's...and that's only with data up to the year 2000.

This shit needs to stop and a good start would be ending the war on drugs.

dont blame police if you end up in the middle of a shootout. they let people sell dope problem is assholes blow up the spot trying to take the drugs and money. they have to use military tactics because some of these gangs are military trained.

[VikingMan]

It would be hilarious if a crew of crooks dressed up in SWAT gear and did a no knock raid of a cop's home. Gee I wonder if the cop would want to defend himself and his family or he would just lay down like a coward and let himself be executed???

[crockett]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

dont blame police if you end up in the middle of a shootout. they let people sell dope problem is assholes blow up the spot trying to take the drugs and money. they have to use military tactics because some of these gangs are military trained.

You are missing the entire point of making it legal. By making it legal it becomes a business and the illegal types get pushed out of the market. Ie gangs and the types whom cause the most problems.

Just like during probation, the gangs were in that business because making it illegal created massive profits for them. Once it was made illegal the gangs no longer chad the ability to corner that market and now there is only a small demand for illegal product.. Think moonshine..

The same would happen if all drugs were made legal. The market would get cornered by big corporations and the little everyday drug dealers would get pushed out as the demand for illegal product went away..

The problem is there is too much money in the war on drugs, so the cops have to have another way to pay for their toys and keep their budgets expanding every year..

[Robbie]

Marking this day down as the day that crockett made perfect sense to me.

[Bake]

Militarizing the police and this is what you get. Keep giving them more left overs from the army and they turn into toy soldiers and make war on the public.
They have the same weapons as the military but not the training. It all starts when they stop being a police service and start being a police force.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

All of them were convicted of some charge or another. You don't go to prison for first offence pot charges in Canada. At least not back when this happened.

Yes, but... The cops weren't looking for a small stash of pot; They don't serve no knock warrants for $40 in pot. Most likely he was further up the food chain. He wasn't going to ticket for pot, but instead they expected to throw him in jail for much larger charges.

If you read a little bit more about this, you find out the reason they went in so heavy when he was home was because they had expected to find "bags of cocaine".

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

I am so glad you know all the intricacies of police work. With the big military surplus items the police forces are getting these days in the US it would take 5 minutes to see how many people were in the house using thermal imaging.

I worked as a small arms combat instructor in the military, which included training local police departments.

I am also guessing that the vast majority of towns don't have thermal imaging units.

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

You keep missing the point that the method they used to serve the warrant was flawed. I don't care if they served the warrant while he was there or while he was away, you can't serve it by busting through windows like a common criminal. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD. Cops serving a no-knock warrant through a window are most likely going to get shot.

I didn't miss that point at all. In fact, I said here in this thread that I didn't understand why they could come through the window. For all you and I know maybe both the front and back doors were barricaded so prevent such entry - this is common in drug houses.

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

Ho many burglars do you know that just come right through the front door? Do you think if they would have knocked on the front door and announced they were police with a search warrant things would have went a little better? I do. Coming through a window unannounced makes you look like a thief and ends up getting people shot.

Burglars usually don't blow through the front door yelling "Police, we have a warrant".

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

I understand that logic perfectly, I wasn't questioning that. I was questioning why you said "the search warrant was for the house not the car." Where the hell did I suggest they search the car? Your comment made no sense and still makes no sense. You reply to one thing by going off on a tangent about something completely irrelevant to what was being discussed.

I said this because you said they could have just pulled him over in his car. I said the warrant for his house, not his car.

Turns out... The warrant was for his house, his car, and his girlfriend's car.

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

And so did the guy who was chilling in bed who hadn't broke any laws and had no reason to be willing to throw his life away just so he could cut down a row of cops.

If he broke any laws or not hasn't been revealed yet. Police do not go doing no knock warrants unless they have a good reason to do so. They believed this guy had bags of cocaine in his house. They not only arrested him, but also arrested his girlfriend, and took over 130 items from his house including plastic bags found in the car believed to have transported large amounts of cocaine.

You already know how this is going to go down - Police are going to paint this guy as a massive drug dealer, and the courts aren't going to care what happens to him.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Robbie

The most surprising thing about this whole story is where I see Rochard being quoted as only 46 years old.
I thought he was a LOT older than I am. lol Turns out I'm way older than him.

I guess looks can be deceiving.

Maybe change your diet, get a good exercise regimen or something?

I love lost 28 pounds since Phoenix Forum. I'm working on it.

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Yes, but... The cops weren't looking for a small stash of pot; They don't serve no knock warrants for $40 in pot. Most likely he was further up the food chain. He wasn't going to ticket for pot, but instead they expected to throw him in jail for much larger charges.

If you read a little bit more about this, you find out the reason they went in so heavy when he was home was because they had expected to find "bags of cocaine".

I don't really care what their reasoning was, going through the window was a bad idea no matter what they thought he was up to. And apparently they found nothing other than a glass pipe and a grinder, which most likely means he liked to smoke a joint once in a while.

I worked as a small arms combat instructor in the military, which included training local police departments.

How many times did you instruct cops on entering peoples' houses through the windows? I'm guessing that probably never came up, and for good reason.

I am also guessing that the vast majority of towns don't have thermal imaging units.

Maybe the police in Killeen Texas (where the deceased cop was from) should consider buying one. They just blew over $200,000 on 231 assault rifles.

It's easy to see where their priorities lie.

I didn't miss that point at all. In fact, I said here in this thread that I didn't understand why they could come through the window. For all you and I know maybe both the front and back doors were barricaded so prevent such entry - this is common in drug houses.

Well that is my whole point. Not sure what you are arguing about then. It was stupid to go through the window. And apparently he was in an apartment complex. There's usually only one entrance to an apartment. If this was a drug house, why didn't they find any drugs? Why would someone barricade the entrance to an apartment that has nothing illegal in it?

Burglars usually don't blow through the front door yelling "Police, we have a warrant".

Ya, I agree, they come through the windows or other less noticeable entrances like these cops foolishly did.

I said this because you said they could have just pulled him over in his car. I said the warrant for his house, not his car.

I clearly said they could arrest him in the car or at work or wherever LATER if they searched his house and found drugs.

If he broke any laws or not hasn't been revealed yet. Police do not go doing no knock warrants unless they have a good reason to do so. They believed this guy had bags of cocaine in his house. They not only arrested him, but also arrested his girlfriend, and took over 130 items from his house including plastic bags found in the car believed to have transported large amounts of cocaine.

This happened way back in May, so it's not like they haven't had time to determine if he should face additional charges. Everything I have read says the worst they could get him for is possession of drug paraphernalia for a glass pipe they found. How many people here have a bong or something in their house? Would a reasonable man knowingly open fire on cops for fear of being charged with possession of drug paraphernalia? This is simply more evidence this guy thought he was being robbed or attacked, etc.

You already know how this is going to go down - Police are going to paint this guy as a massive drug dealer, and the courts aren't going to care what happens to him

Ya, that is what they will try to do. Unfortunately they don't seem to have any evidence of that other than the word of an informant that turned out to be totally false.

[JustDaveXxx]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

All of them were convicted of some charge or another. You don't go to prison for first offence pot charges in Canada. At least not back when this happened.





I am so glad you know all the intricacies of police work. With the big military surplus items the police forces are getting these days in the US it would take 5 minutes to see how many people were in the house using thermal imaging.

http://www.bullard.com/V3/products/t...icles/0002.php
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ered-boat.html





Ho many burglars do you know that just come right through the front door? Do you think if they would have knocked on the front door and announced they were police with a search warrant things would have went a little better? I do. Coming through a window unannounced makes you look like a thief and ends up getting people shot.




I understand that logic perfectly, I wasn't questioning that. I was questioning why you said "the search warrant was for the house not the car." Where the hell did I suggest they search the car? Your comment made no sense and still makes no sense. You reply to one thing by going off on a tangent about something completely irrelevant to what was being discussed.





All the more reason to not enter the building through a window like a common burglar.




I agree, pretty fucking stupid to go through a window.



Well you can assume all you want but that doesn't make it true. The whole purpose of these retarded no-knock warrants is to gain surprise and not make your presence immediately known to the suspect. They paid the price this time. And so did the guy who was chilling in bed who hadn't broke any laws and had no reason to be willing to throw his life away just so he could cut down a row of cops.

I agree with everything you said. Makes my posting that much less time consuming.

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

keep missing the point that the method they used to serve the warrant was flawed. I don't care if they served the warrant while he was there or while he was away, you can't serve it by busting through windows like a common criminal. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD. Cops serving a no-knock warrant through a window are most likely going to get shot.

But this one statement is the whole issue that should mitigate what this guy gets if heard by an appellate court. This issue could adjust the outcome of what actually happens to this guy.


Thats leagally speaking. What actually happens, who knows; system is broken in my opinion.


Just Dave

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by Rochard

You have the right to defend your home, but you do not have the right to shot and kill police officers legally serving a search warrant.

How do you know the difference between a robber breaking in and a group of police officers serving a warrant? You really can't. But if you live by the sword, there is a good chance you will die by the sword. If you don't like your options, don't live by the sword - Don't sell drugs and you don't have to carry firearms to protect yourself.

I understand that some people feel the need to be able to protect their house with firearms, but I just don't feel the same way. I am forty-six years old (and well armed with multiple assault rifles) yet I've never known ANYONE who has been the victim of a home invasion or even confronting an armed robber in their house.

I read so few posts on here but when I do I can almost guarantee there is some idiotic shit in the thread posted by you. How you remember to breathe really blows my mind.

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Shouldn't an obvious question be "how was it that he had a gun loaded and ready and aimed at the door" if he's being charged with murder it's because the state can prove he knew they were police, he knew they were coming, he grabbed a gun and waited for them and then opened fire.

The state is not going to attempt a very public, multi million dollar capital murder case unless the evidence is overwhelming... or unless you're a conspiracy nut.

You dumb, sad motherfucker.

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by Rochard

If he broke any laws or not hasn't been revealed yet. Police do not go doing no knock warrants unless they have a good reason to do so. They believed this guy had bags of cocaine in his house. They not only arrested him, but also arrested his girlfriend, and took over 130 items from his house including plastic bags found in the car believed to have transported large amounts of cocaine.

You already know how this is going to go down - Police are going to paint this guy as a massive drug dealer, and the courts aren't going to care what happens to him.

There are very few reasons good enough for no knock warrants and fucking "bags of cocaine" is not one of them.

Also, who gives a fuck what their reasoning is? Obviously they were wrong as they often are. I know they blew through my door in my teen years because they thought my pothead roommates were selling weight with no fucking reason to believe such a thing. They found some fucking seeds in the carpet, no charges pressed.

But those were the good old days when cops announced who in the fuck they were instead of climbing in a window. I'm sure there were still idiots defending their ridiculous actions back then though, some things never change.

[Jel]

the funny part is that even though one of the good guys died due to a fucked up decision that no-knock warrants for bags of cocaine is the correct way to go, the supposed cop fans, for want of a better word, are so entrenched in their 'what authority says goes' mindset that the death of a total innocent still isn't enough to plant a seed of doubt that maybe just maybe this was a bad way to do things.

Maybe in the old days the higher-ups realised that an announcement and 100% clarity that it was cops at the door was important to ensure no cops were shot in the line of duty due to the very real possibility the criminal thought he was under attack from another criminal(s). Maybe they thought that was more important than losing a conviction due to some guy flushing coke down the toilet.

I mean really, what's the justification that force can give for a police officer dying while climbing through a window - well mrs.widow & children - the price was well worth it, because the guy who we didn't find any drugs on, could have flushed them *if* he actually had any. Don't worry though, the guy who killed your husband/dad is going to be executed.

Seems a great trade '_'