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03-05-2012, 03:31 PM | #1 |
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Can someone please explain the GOP / TEA PARTY / to me?
First, I'm a Canadian who just happens to have discovered his inner political-nerd. I watch and read alot of news and find the US politics really interesting.
I have a question that I can't seem to get an answer from and I was hoping to get some feedback here. From everything I have seen and read, it APPEARS that there are many republicans that seem to be ... well... evil! Please tell me where I am wrong and / or correct me on the following: - Republicans seem to favour big oil over anything. - Republicans care nothing for the environment. - Republicans favour the Bible and blind faith over science and base all of their decisions on it. - Republicans SEEM to be homophobic, as they SEEM to want to deny civil liberties to homosexuals and use the Bible as some kind of justification for their decisions despite the whole "separation of church and state" thing. - Republicans SEEM to hate higher education. - Republicans SEEM to hate contraception in all forms, despite the threat of overpopulation, disease, family planning etc. - Republicans SEEM to be racist. They are making it harder for black people to vote, deny illegal immigrants to naturalization services, and seem to hate President Obama. It seems that no matter what Obama wants to do, they will oppose it. The last point really has been curious. John Bohner and the rest seemed to want to block every single thing that Obama wanted. I say the word SEEMS because something does not make sense to me. From my (A Canadian's perspective), how can a political party in the US of A seem to be so... evil? Republican nominees like Santorum spew hate. Romney and Gingrich seem to throw up lies. Is what I am seeing, hearing and reading, real? I watch alot of MSNBC, but to get some perspective I also watch Fox News and even listen to Rush Limbaugh. It is easy to find the lies that Rush Fox News pours out of their channel, and I totally understand that Fox may not even be real news, and is owned by Murdoch, and I get the fact that the Koch Brothers have interests, etc. But is it all this clear? Is everything that easy to polarize? From my point of view, the democrats look like the good guys, and the republicans look like the evil doers. Is this really true?
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03-05-2012, 03:32 PM | #2 |
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03-05-2012, 03:32 PM | #3 |
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03-05-2012, 03:38 PM | #4 |
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You should follow Canadian politics instead.
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03-05-2012, 03:39 PM | #5 |
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They appear to be major assholes, and they really are.
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03-05-2012, 03:41 PM | #6 |
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The GOP is no worse than the Democrats, or better.
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03-05-2012, 03:42 PM | #7 |
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03-05-2012, 03:45 PM | #8 |
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They both suck donkey balls and are more interested in beating each other instead of what is right. They play fucking games, hide shit in bills, and work their own agendas.
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03-05-2012, 03:46 PM | #9 |
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This thread is going to be awesome.
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03-05-2012, 04:25 PM | #10 | ||
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You've pretty well listed off the democrat's playbook of accusations.
I don't have al day to write a book, so let's pick one charge Quote:
As soon as the republicans overcame these democrat filibusters so that blacks would have the right to vote, the democrats shit their pants. Millions of new voters hated them bitterly. The democrat's strategy was brilliant - start calling the REPUBLICANS racist, all day, every day. Before long, the "illiterate n------s" would be confused about who actually supported their right to vote and who opposed it. It's fucking brilliant. An elected official of the KKK and calling the OTHER GUYS racist! Is this out of character for the republicans? It was almost an exact repeat of 98 earlier, the Civil Rights Act of 1866. Republicans passed that act making blacks citizens, over democrat opposition. THe emancipation proclamation - republican. So the fact is, republicans make huge advances in civil rights while democrats who are elected leaders of the KKK call them racist and try to stop civil rights. Is this ancient history, the civil rights movement? A leading democrat senator used the N word on TV just recently: These are the guys calling the republicans racist. Quote:
That quote is from Reagan's inaugural address and I think it's one of the most succint statements of the biggest difference between the parties - Republican government and democrat government both suck; the republicans know they suck and seek to have less. Compare Obama's promise to "remake America" - the implication being his government should force radical changes on the whole nation.
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03-05-2012, 04:33 PM | #11 |
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what do you mean SEEM, you're right on the money
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03-05-2012, 04:47 PM | #12 | |
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If everyone goes to college ? Where would we be ? Nobody would run the machines and take out the trash , or run the tube sites?
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03-05-2012, 04:49 PM | #13 |
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Please don't be confused by narrow revisionist histories.
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was called on by a Democratic President, JFK. Sent to House of Representatives where it was strengthened by the House of Judiciary Committee leader, a Democrat from New York. After JFK's assassination, Johnson was the Democratic president urging its passing. Passed the house by 290 to 130 and sent to the Senate. There was a "Southern Bloc" of 18 southern democratic and 1 republican senators attempting to block the passing, but it eventually passed anyway. This was a southern issue, not a Democrat vs Republican issue where the Republicans were unanimously in favor and the U.S. Democrats were all trying to prevent it, anymore than the "Blue Dogs" represent the Democratic party in matter on the stance of Defense and War. 100% of Southern House Republicans voted against it. 100% of Southern Senate Republicans voted against it.
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03-05-2012, 04:55 PM | #14 | |
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03-05-2012, 05:25 PM | #15 |
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it's sad what's happened to the Republicans - they are burdened with the embarassment of the religious right. the core ideals of the Republican party are great, a better plan for a country than that of the Democrats but those ideals can't be sold to the modern American public through the homophobic, moronic, fundamentalist noise provided by the religious right.
then like everybody seems to agree on these days - both parties are two sides of the same coin. all politicians bought and paid for, puppets of those much more powerful and millions of times wealthier. big government sucks - technology and big government is a very scary tandem. nothing will change the course now, no third party, no outsider like Ron Paul -the die is cast, the American empire is in its death throes. which isn't a good thing for the rest of the world.
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03-05-2012, 05:32 PM | #16 |
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I think this makes perfect sense coming from your perspective and understanding, you having been brought up in a country that usually has the interests of its people at heart over the interests of big corporations. However, this is changing somewhat even in your country isn't it? Big corporate interests are starting to be more of a factor in politics back home?
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03-05-2012, 05:37 PM | #17 |
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To be fair, it really does look much much worse with the elephant on top.
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03-05-2012, 05:43 PM | #18 |
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As I said, the democrat's strategy was brilliant. You tell me, which party's senator and elected KKK leader died in 2010 after being elected non-stop from 1959 until he died fifty-one years later? The democrat president pro tem used the N word on the senate floor. Then proceeded to call the other guys racist, and people who aren't paying attention believe it! Really? The KKK members who love to call people "n-----r" are tbe good guys, while the party that passed the Civil Rights Act are the racists? Are you really so ignorant of the facts that you fall for that BS?
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03-05-2012, 05:44 PM | #19 |
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The republicans have gotten trapped in the moral and logical outcomes of their own rhetorical success.
Read some Jonathan Haidt, regarding manichean thinking. The polarization is destroying both parties from the inside out, each with their own variation of the same moral and logical problem. Here's some, its got the Moyers spin but Haidts ideas are pretty well presented. http://billmoyers.com/episode/how-do...see-the-world/ http://billmoyers.com/wp-content/the....php?post=3100 BILL MOYERS: And that's because of the Baby Boomers, and- |
03-05-2012, 05:46 PM | #20 |
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Lol, and from that same video...
JONATHAN HAIDT: Politics has always been about coalitions and teams fighting each other. But those teams, those teams were never evenly divided on morality. Now, well, basically it all started, as you well know, on the day Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act. You tell me what he said on that day. I think I heard you say this once. |
03-05-2012, 05:58 PM | #21 | |
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The United States is filled with men in its history who made tragic mistakes. Byrd and Thurmond are two such men but they alone do not represent an entire party. At best, they may represent their constituents who continue to vote for them. Byrd changed his mind, regretted his filibuster and voted for the civil rights act of 1968. I don't know when Thurmond came to his senses. Both of them were wrong obviously, but so were the others, including the 100% of Southern Republicans in the House, and 100% of Southern Republicans in the Senate who also opposed the act. It was a different time in our history and we've worked to change things since then. They'd both be about 100 years old by now if they were still living, but they're not and they're not running for office either. Look at it for what it really is. A fraction of the big picture. Republicans are the party that passed the Civil Rights Act? Are you kidding?
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03-05-2012, 06:02 PM | #22 |
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You should watch The Young Turks The are the biggest online news outlet. They also come on current TV.
And yeah the GOP is all those things you said, But the GOP now is very different than they were 50 years ago. Now they are just a bunch of crazies.
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03-05-2012, 06:05 PM | #23 |
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At this point, I feel I should offer this point for consideration... if a defender of any party or position needs to omit the large detail of the facts, and take a small subset of the issue out of the greater context, you are probably safe in the knowledge that there's something wrong in their position. It should be very telling all by itself.
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03-05-2012, 06:14 PM | #24 | |
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03-05-2012, 06:59 PM | #25 | ||
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Quote:
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03-05-2012, 07:18 PM | #26 | |
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If you say so.
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03-05-2012, 07:26 PM | #27 |
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03-05-2012, 07:28 PM | #28 |
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"From everything I have seen and read.."
"I watch alot of MSNBC" There's your problem right there. |
03-05-2012, 07:32 PM | #29 | ||
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Quote:
Byrd died in 2010. His use of the word in 2001 in an interview: Quote:
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03-05-2012, 07:33 PM | #30 |
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Could you also please tell us more about that Republican party that passed the civil rights act, with those 100% Southern Republicans (House AND Senate) in opposition?
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03-05-2012, 07:35 PM | #31 | |
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...but I also said that, to be fair, I watch Fox News and even have been listening to Rush Limbaugh lately. And of course being Canadian I watch alot of CTV and CBC. I should watch BBC and perhaps some Al Jazeria (sp?) but I don't think it would matter much. When it comes to MSNBC. I never miss Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow, and Lawrence O'Donnel. Rachel is pretty cool, but I have come to notice that ED asked very careful questions to his audience. For example, today he asked "Will people still continue to listen to the Rush Limbaugh Show". This is a sneaky question to ask. Of course all of the MSNBC viewers will say No, and Ed will flaunt this at the end of his show. The question is designed to put pressure on his rival, Rush. I still think Rush is an idiot, but ED's very slight manipulation here seemed a little obvious. Anyway, all very very interesting..
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03-05-2012, 07:38 PM | #32 |
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It is pretty simple.
Old school republicans actually want smaller government, less taxes and more personal freedom. Then Reagan sold the republican party out to the religious right. With that the republicans took control of the south which had been a long time democratic stronghold. With that sea change the republican party changed. They suddenly became the party of morality. They still wanted you to have your personal freedoms, so long as they agreed with those freedoms. They also raised taxes and increased the size of government. They basically became just like the democrats only the democrats are tax and spend while the republicans are debt and spend. So long as they placate the religious right they have a built in base that is easy to control and that can be counted on to turn out for elections. We saw how that worked against them in 2008. The religious right didn't like McCain and weren't too happy with hour Bush had treated them so they didn't turn out. The old school republicans basically are what the new libertarians are. |
03-05-2012, 07:41 PM | #33 | |
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Both parties elect bad representatives. Hopefully the next one won't be as bad as the last few, if only by not doing much, ala Clinton. Clinton didn't fuck things up much because he was too busy cheating on his wife, denying that he cheated on wife getting people to lie about him cheating on wife, etc. That worked out okay because as long as he was busy fucking women he wasn't fucking us. It's hard to tell before an election if someone will be good. Governor Bush was widely regarded as a very good governor, so 51% of us thought he'd be a good president. We were wrong. Another 51% thought Obama would pull us out of the slump. Boy were we wrong. On the other hand, two young kids named Roosevelt and Kennedy were great, as was a Hollywood actor named Reagan. There's really no telling how these candidates would do.
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03-05-2012, 07:45 PM | #34 |
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Republicans are huge on civil rights. They've overturned DADT against Obama's wishes, Republican states are voting in gay marriage and they believe every woman should make the choice on whether they should have an abortion.
Stop trying to skew things. |
03-05-2012, 07:48 PM | #35 | |
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Politifact also notes that some democrats were strong supporters, while mentioning that 3/4 of the opposition was democrats.
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03-05-2012, 07:57 PM | #36 | |
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Let's say that out of 100, there are 20 members who oppose something. They only represent 20% of the whole. If 100% of those 20 members are democrats, it doesn't mean they represent 100% of democrats. I've already shown it was a Southern political issue, not a Democratic political issue. You should have already realized this too since it was a Democratic president, a Democratic Judicial leader, a subsequent Democratic president, and a higher percentage of Northern Democrats than Northern Republicans in both House and Senate, pushing for the Civil Rights Act of 1964. I also showed you that 100% of Southern Republicans opposed the act. If you can't acknowledge that it was a Northern vs Southern issue, then you're just refusing to accept the truths and instead prefer to take a subset of the data and use that data to form your inaccurate opinion based on partial evidence because it's what you want to believe and not what is accurate.
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03-05-2012, 08:00 PM | #37 | |
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Indeed. Don't ask don't tell was Clinton's policy. Bush appointee Robert Gates sought to do away with it while Obama fought to delay it's end even after the court ruled it unconstitutional. After a court battle trying to drag his feet on eliminating it, when he could delay Obama saw the polls and announced he had ended DADT. Liar. The court ended DADT while he appealed.
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03-05-2012, 08:11 PM | #38 | |
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Also, you say it's "Clinton's policy" without clarifying that it was a compromise as Clinton wanted anybody to be able to serve as gays were prohibited from serving. His opposition (including those that flooded Congressional phone lines) put up a fight (and was winning), so they came up with the good intention-ed DADT, compromise, which in hindsight, wasn't all that great. If Clinton could have had his way, everybody would be serving openly like today. If nobody opposed him, DADT would have never had to happen. Before you say "it's Wikipedia, get a real source," follow the sources if you do not want to believe wiki... it's just a good congregation of links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell |
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03-05-2012, 08:15 PM | #39 | |
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In total, 37% of democrats opposed, 20% of republicans - democrats were twice as likely to oppose civil rights than republicans were. It's convenient, if you're a democrat, to call it a southern thing and ignore the reason the south, built on slaves, elected democrats. Because they south was (and still is) racist, they do three things: burn crosses lynch blacks elect democrats
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03-05-2012, 08:20 PM | #40 | |
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You're still just playing math games. It doesn't matter, I no longer care to keep highlighting it because you aren't really interested in what really happened. Your comments in this topic emphasize that you want to believe the Republican party is the party responsible for passing the civil rights act. You're completely oblivious of the role Democrats played in passing Civil Rights, and with that especially I'm just not bothering anymore.
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03-05-2012, 08:21 PM | #41 |
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03-05-2012, 08:27 PM | #42 |
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=VYlMEVTa-PI
This is a real Republican and a real Democrat. You may notice now the people claiming to be these are nothing more than corporate whores.
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03-05-2012, 08:31 PM | #43 |
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You watch too much MSNBC. Republicans and Democrats are both worthless.
Bush, idiot child of a president, is elected because of his family. He: Increases debt to absurd amount Gets us in ridiculous wars with no plan for dumb reasons Erodes human rights in the name of "security" Presides over a recession that he can do nothing about Obama, unwanted child of a muslim, is elected because of his race. He: Increases debt to absurd amount Gets us in ridiculous wars with no plan for dumb reasons Erodes human rights in the name of "security" Presides over a recession that he can do nothing about |
03-05-2012, 09:44 PM | #44 |
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Vote the bums out! All of them
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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants think about that |
03-05-2012, 09:56 PM | #45 | |
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I say this chick is hot: Argue with that, my friend.
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03-05-2012, 10:06 PM | #46 |
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03-06-2012, 01:32 AM | #47 |
It's 42
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03-06-2012, 06:16 AM | #48 |
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Republicans stand for 2 things:
1. Large Corporations getting larger. 2. Fooling stupid people into thinking they stand for other things.
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03-06-2012, 06:43 AM | #49 |
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sanest reply in this thread
The fact that this argument about which party is more evil is even going on should tell us all how badly they have both failed, the parties have done nothing but so polarize our nation that our government can't function, the leaders of both parties should be taken out and shot. And at the very least no candidate with "incumbent" after their names will ever get my vote again |
03-06-2012, 07:05 AM | #50 | |
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