Al Gore: ?Polar ice cap could be completely gone in summer in as little as seven years.?

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by **********

You do realize that you are quoting "TEAPARTY.ORG", right?

Just a heads-up for anyone still reading this thread: Science is truth, period. But trying to argue "truth" is impossible sometimes not only because what us regular non-non-scientiist folk (want to) believe, but also because how we arrive at our "facts".

What happens is this. Many people search for information online not necessarily to gather the truth, but to gather the "truth" that supports their pre existing ideas of what truth is.

Believe it or not, Google is partly to blame. Google and others serve information to users that they are likely to click on, because they are likely to believe in it.

For example, if you think that Tom Cruise is Gay and you see 2 headlines : "Is Tom Cruise kissing a new starlet?" vs "Is Tom Cruise kissing a dude?", you are more likely to click on the "Dude" headline because it reinforces your preconceived notion or beliefs.

So anyway, before everyone gets all bent out of shape about their beliefs in global warming, do this: Forget Al Gore. His message, whether you believe it or not, is lost in the white noise of politics. Also, forget left wing or right wing media as distributors of pure science. Instead, go to http://www.Nasa.gov, or http://www.noaa.gov, and get your information there. If you don't believe what they say, you should.

Peace.

ah fuck it, let me rub your idiot nose in it now instead:
http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/octob.../#.VDvXRhbtC-I

"""""The cold waters of Earth?s deep ocean have not warmed measurably since 2005""""

[PAR]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

ah fuck it, let me rub your idiot nose in it now instead:
http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/octob.../#.VDvXRhbtC-I

"""""The cold waters of Earth?s deep ocean have not warmed measurably since 2005""""

Did you like the link to nasa.gov that I sent you re: snow and sea ice formation..?

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by PAR

Did you like the link to nasa.gov that I sent you re: snow and sea ice formation..?

No. I lose interest in chatboard clowns pretty easily.
When your arguments are,"the ice is melting, we're all doomed" and "the ice is growing, we're all doomed"
I leave the pearls in my pocket.

[PAR]

LoL ok sure... cool story...

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by **********

You do realize that you are quoting "TEAPARTY.ORG", right?

Just a heads-up for anyone still reading this thread: Science is truth, period. But trying to argue "truth" is impossible sometimes not only because what us regular non-non-scientiist folk (want to) believe, but also because how we arrive at our "facts".

What happens is this. Many people search for information online not necessarily to gather the truth, but to gather the "truth" that supports their pre existing ideas of what truth is.

Believe it or not, Google is partly to blame. Google and others serve information to users that they are likely to click on, because they are likely to believe in it.

For example, if you think that Tom Cruise is Gay and you see 2 headlines : "Is Tom Cruise kissing a new starlet?" vs "Is Tom Cruise kissing a dude?", you are more likely to click on the "Dude" headline because it reinforces your preconceived notion or beliefs.

So anyway, before everyone gets all bent out of shape about their beliefs in global warming, do this: Forget Al Gore. His message, whether you believe it or not, is lost in the white noise of politics. Also, forget left wing or right wing media as distributors of pure science. Instead, go to http://www.Nasa.gov, or http://www.noaa.gov, and get your information there. If you don't believe what they say, you should.

Peace.

science is truth, period?

google fucks up science because, you know, tom cruise is gay?


this post actually explains pretty good **********'s comprehension level

[Robbie]

I keep seeing that faux-liberals dismiss the Tea Party, I guess because of crazy Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin trying to hitch their wagons to it.

Aren't the REAL Tea Party members a lot different than the dozens of lifetime/career politicians who pretend to suddenly have converted to it to try and get votes?

I would see the liberal media on MSNBC and CNN talk about Bachman and Palin and Cruz as the "leaders" of the Tea Party (much the same way they would claim that Rush Limbaugh was the "leader" of the Republican Party) in an effort to destroy that movement.

And then I would see the actual REAL Tea Party representatives from different areas of the country go on the news and refute that over and over saying that "no" there are are no "leaders" of the Tea Party and that their party stands for "Taxed Enough Already"

The real people in that movement don't want lifetime/career politicians and they are sick of the Feds taxing us and then spending trillions on stupid shit like invading other countries.

It's the liberal mindset that tries to make them "bad" somehow. (as they do with ANYTHING that isn't a Democrat)

I think Palin and Bachman and Cruz are simply bureaucrats who did some polling and figured out that they could gain political clout by attaching their names to the TEA Party.

But that would be too much a stretch for people who get all their info from liberal biased sources who do nothing but parrot Democrat Party machine talking points.

"Team Sports" once again. It's a sad situation, and one of the reasons that nothing ever really changes.

[ilnjscb]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'd love to put solar on my home. As I've said before...I almost pulled the trigger on it in 2006 when I lived in South Caronlina. It was a total home system that would not require ANY power from the "grid".

It had a huge solar panel that was on a motorized stand and moved with the sun.

The cost was over $50,000 for it though!

More recently I checked into a company that puts up solar panels on your roof. They don't charge you for the panels or installation or maintenance. But they charge you per month at a rate "much lower than the electric company". (that's the Solar City company you talked about)
Problem is, you have to sign a 20 year contract.
I'm not sure I want to stay in my home for the next 20 years (kids are grown up and the house has 7 bedrooms and 5 baths AND an outside casita where my office is that has another full kitchen and full bath, way too much for just me and Claudia Marie to live in)

I think the 20 year thing is as much good old Elon Musk wanting to make money as it is cost per KWH. But I'll give you it doesn't make sense. Most people stay in their homes for 7 years, I think the stats say.

A lot of the trouble is, as you've pointed out, self interested parties on both sides making millions (and billions) while they use the knuckleheads as foot soldiers.

[Bryan G]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

No. I lose interest in chatboard clowns pretty easily.
When your arguments are,"the ice is melting, we're all doomed" and "the ice is growing, we're all doomed"
I leave the pearls in my pocket.

I believe Paul just owned you six ways from sunday lol.

[brassmonkey]

manbear pig

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

A lot of the trouble is, as you've pointed out, self interested parties on both sides making millions (and billions) while they use the knuckleheads as foot soldiers.

Yeah, that's why I keep pointing out that the govt. isn't doing anything.

When a REAL crisis hit...World War 2 for instance...the whole country mobilized. The govt. actually did it's job. Cars weren't even made because the car factories were being used to make tanks and other military vehicles.

Now...supposedly this is the greatest threat to mankind EVER (well, until the next boogieman they make up to fleece money from the people). And what does the govt. do?

Put up solar panels on every home?
Mandate all cars to be electric starting NOW and have every mechanic shop in the country outfitted with conversion kits to take out the combustion engines from current cars and replace them with the already working Tesla style engines that are 100% electric and have a big range on them?

Wow! That would create jobs, stimulate the economy, and SAVE THE WORLD!

Nope...they took 2 TRILLION dollars and handed it to the banks. And the money did what exactly for the people?
"Saved" us?

Well, if the bullshit that crockett, Mark Prince, and other sheeple believe is true...NONE of that matters with the banks. Because mankind is doomed unless humans can somehow "stop" "global warming". And you can't spend money when you're dead.

You see, that's where I draw the line and call BULLSHIT.

The President has all the REAL data right in front of him. He knows if it's really true or if it's just a money scam.

So let's see what he's doing in this extreme emergency...
He's having the military produce a gigantic CO2 footpring with aircraft carriers and jet planes bombing the latest Mid-East boogieman/defense industry savior: ISIS

And ISIS has an "army" that is basically the size of the National Guard of a small state in the U.S.

Does that sound like "man made" climate change is real to anyone with an ounce of intelligence?

If you want to know the TRUTH. Just watch what the ruling elite class (govt bureaucarts/lifetime politicians) DO.
They are good at talking the talk. But just watch them NOT walk the walk and you can see the truth.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yeah, that's why I keep pointing out that the govt. isn't doing anything.

When a REAL crisis hit...World War 2 for instance...the whole country mobilized. The govt. actually did it's job. Cars weren't even made because the car factories were being used to make tanks and other military vehicles.

Now...supposedly this is the greatest threat to mankind EVER (well, until the next boogieman they make up to fleece money from the people). And what does the govt. do?

Put up solar panels on every home?
Mandate all cars to be electric starting NOW and have every mechanic shop in the country outfitted with conversion kits to take out the combustion engines from current cars and replace them with the already working Tesla style engines that are 100% electric and have a big range on them?

Wow! That would create jobs, stimulate the economy, and SAVE THE WORLD!

Nope...they took 2 TRILLION dollars and handed it to the banks. And the money did what exactly for the people?
"Saved" us?

Well, if the bullshit that crockett, Mark Prince, and other sheeple believe is true...NONE of that matters with the banks. Because mankind is doomed unless humans can somehow "stop" "global warming". And you can't spend money when you're dead.

You see, that's where I draw the line and call BULLSHIT.

The President has all the REAL data right in front of him. He knows if it's really true or if it's just a money scam.

So let's see what he's doing in this extreme emergency...
He's having the military produce a gigantic CO2 footpring with aircraft carriers and jet planes bombing the latest Mid-East boogieman/defense industry savior: ISIS

And ISIS has an "army" that is basically the size of the National Guard of a small state in the U.S.

Does that sound like "man made" climate change is real to anyone with an ounce of intelligence?

If you want to know the TRUTH. Just watch what the ruling elite class (govt bureaucarts/lifetime politicians) DO.
They are good at talking the talk. But just watch them NOT walk the walk and you can see the truth.

.

[crockett]

Looks like 12clicks fell off the roof again and bumped his head..

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I keep seeing that faux-liberals dismiss the Tea Party, I guess because of crazy Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin trying to hitch their wagons to it.

Aren't the REAL Tea Party members a lot different than the dozens of lifetime/career politicians who pretend to suddenly have converted to it to try and get votes?

I would see the liberal media on MSNBC and CNN talk about Bachman and Palin and Cruz as the "leaders" of the Tea Party (much the same way they would claim that Rush Limbaugh was the "leader" of the Republican Party) in an effort to destroy that movement.

And then I would see the actual REAL Tea Party representatives from different areas of the country go on the news and refute that over and over saying that "no" there are are no "leaders" of the Tea Party and that their party stands for "Taxed Enough Already"

The real people in that movement don't want lifetime/career politicians and they are sick of the Feds taxing us and then spending trillions on stupid shit like invading other countries.

It's the liberal mindset that tries to make them "bad" somehow. (as they do with ANYTHING that isn't a Democrat)

I think Palin and Bachman and Cruz are simply bureaucrats who did some polling and figured out that they could gain political clout by attaching their names to the TEA Party.

But that would be too much a stretch for people who get all their info from liberal biased sources who do nothing but parrot Democrat Party machine talking points.

"Team Sports" once again. It's a sad situation, and one of the reasons that nothing ever really changes.

I suspect Robbie has never read the definition of faux-liberal as it fits him to a tee but he calls everyone else one..

Faux-liberal
Someone who constantly talks about their liberal viewpoints to overcompensate for other things. These people say they are liberals but don't believe in equal rights for women, own guns, or have other traditionally conservative viewpoints.

..or perhaps he is a faux-consertive.

[Robbie]

No Crockett, that's not the definition of it.

Faux means FALSE. You are a false liberal.

True liberal giants of this country would laugh at you and your pandering to govt.
It's the very antithesis of what a truly liberal minded person is.

But you are welcome to continue to believe you are "liberal" while you continuously support more govt. oversight and less freedom in your life.

True liberals were all about freedom.

This new brand of "liberal" is nothing but about giant govt and less freedom.

But that's cool. I understand that you need the govt. to hold your hand because you may feel that you have limited abilities or something.
Free-thinking liberals like Abbie Hoffman, Bob Dylan, Malcolm X, etc. would label you what you are: A conservative authority-loving conformist.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

No Crockett, that's not the definition of it.

Faux means FALSE. You are a false liberal.

True liberal giants of this country would laugh at you and your pandering to govt.
It's the very antithesis of what a truly liberal minded person is.

But you are welcome to continue to believe you are "liberal" while you continuously support more govt. oversight and less freedom in your life.

True liberals were all about freedom.

This new brand of "liberal" is nothing but about giant govt and less freedom.

But that's cool. I understand that you need the govt. to hold your hand because you may feel that you have limited abilities or something.
Free-thinking liberals like Abbie Hoffman, Bob Dylan, Malcolm X, etc. would label you what you are: A conservative authority-loving conformist.

Well see that's where speculation gets you. I've never once called myself a liberal. That's a title you and your circle jerk partners love to toss around at everyone whom disagrees with you. I've always maintained that have have liberal views about various things as well as conservative views about others.

What you fail to understand, despite me explaining it many times, is that I am anti-Right wing because they have gone bat shit crazy. I've also never once said I agree with everything g Obama does but once again you and your circle jerkers just assume, that because I dislike the right wing that it makes me a liberal..ect..ect..

I call myself an American, I don't put any party before that, something you right wingers should learn how to do. I do however usually vote Democrat as I usually find most right wingers to be.. Well bat shit crazy or just full of bullshit. However, once again I've never once called my self a liberal...so if you think calling me a faux-liberal makes me sad, lol well it doesn't.

I was just calling out your simpleton thinking being you fit the definition pretty well, being you love to tell us how liberal you are.

[Robbie]

Sorry crockett, but this time it's you who must be corrected.

I'm not a member of any "circle jerkers" on GFY.

As for you, you are blatantly and 100% a Democrat who thinks that anyone who doesn't agree with the DNC's party line is obviously a "right winger"

Yes, Michelle Bachman-types in the Republican party ARE definitely "bat shit crazy".

So is Nancy Pelosi (though that may be the onset of dementia at her age) and other Democrats like former Democrat Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney.

But the vast majority of Democrats and Republicans are not crazy. Not at all. They are holding hands with each other to keep a 2 party system that nurtures lifetime/career politicians in power and NOTHING ever changes for our country.

That is the part you are too blind to see.

You are a "team sport" person. Common in this country now.

You aren't a "liberal". You are a follower. I doubt very seriously that you have a true liberal bone in your body. You are a FAUX liberal. A fake who thinks he is real.

I'm pretty certain that you aren't really this way. But you've created a personality for yourself on GFY and you are kinda trapped in it now.

You've painted yourself in a corner and you can't get out.

Theoretically, Obama could murder a school house full of children tomorrow and you would claim it was George Bush's fault.

And conversely, Bush could come out tomorrow and admit everything he did was wrong and announce he is fully supportive of every detail of the DNC party but will stay a Republican...and you would attack him and start babbling about the Koch Brothers and Fox News.

That's why I enjoy you. You're very predictable. And always funny.

One other thing crockett: Do YOU believe the polar ice caps will be gone in 7 years? Do you?

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Sorry crockett, but this time it's you who must be corrected.

I'm not a member of any "circle jerkers" on GFY.

As for you, you are blatantly and 100% a Democrat who thinks that anyone who doesn't agree with the DNC's party line is obviously a "right winger"

Yes, Michelle Bachman-types in the Republican party ARE definitely "bat shit crazy".

So is Nancy Pelosi (though that may be the onset of dementia at her age) and other Democrats like former Democrat Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney.

But the vast majority of Democrats and Republicans are not crazy. Not at all. They are holding hands with each other to keep a 2 party system that nurtures lifetime/career politicians in power and NOTHING ever changes for our country.

That is the part you are too blind to see.

You are a "team sport" person. Common in this country now.

You aren't a "liberal". You are a follower. I doubt very seriously that you have a true liberal bone in your body. You are a FAUX liberal. A fake who thinks he is real.

I'm pretty certain that you aren't really this way. But you've created a personality for yourself on GFY and you are kinda trapped in it now.

You've painted yourself in a corner and you can't get out.

Theoretically, Obama could murder a school house full of children tomorrow and you would claim it was George Bush's fault.

And conversely, Bush could come out tomorrow and admit everything he did was wrong and announce he is fully supportive of every detail of the DNC party but will stay a Republican...and you would attack him and start babbling about the Koch Brothers and Fox News.

That's why I enjoy you. You're very predictable. And always funny.

One other thing crockett: Do YOU believe the polar ice caps will be gone in 7 years? Do you?

Robbie you just talk in circles and try to act as if everyone else is the bad guy and you are the hero of all. I don't blame Bush for anything he didn't do.. However it sure was you that blamed Obama non stop for everything g congress did or couldn't get done..

Hello pot, meet the kettle.. See this is your problem, you always try to exclude yourself from doing anything wrong but everyone else is the problem.

[_Richard_]

woo new definitions of a 'liberal'.. some bizarre form of libertarian!

you'd think with all the common ideologies of liberalism, unions, freedom for all, blah blah, one wouldn't suggest that 'liberalism is against a government'

but this is bizarro world

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by crockett

Robbie you just talk in circles and try to act as if everyone else is the bad guy and you are the hero of all. I don't blame Bush for anything he didn't do.. However it sure was you that blamed Obama non stop for everything g congress did or couldn't get done..

Hello pot, meet the kettle.. See this is your problem, you always try to exclude yourself from doing anything wrong but everyone else is the problem.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

So I'll ask you again: Do YOU believe that the polar ice caps will be gone in 7 years? Yes or no?

And I don't exclude or include myself from anything. I'm not PART of the govt. and thus I have ZERO power to do any of the shit they have done.

I do believe in being VERY skeptical of the govt.
You know, like a REAL liberal is.
Or as Pres. Obama's own FBI Director James Comey said on 60 Minutes this past week: Americans should question the govt. because they can't be trusted and that is why the Founding Fathers divided it into 3 branches in the first place.

That's straight from the horse's mouth.

I just wish that I could somehow convince you to be a lot more skeptical of what the elites are doing in Washington D.C. and stop playing politics like it's a "team sport".

[MK Ultra]

Originally Posted by crockett

Well see that's where speculation gets you. I've never once called myself a liberal. That's a title you and your circle jerk partners love to toss around at everyone whom disagrees with you. I've always maintained that have have liberal views about various things as well as conservative views about others.

What you fail to understand, despite me explaining it many times, is that I am anti-Right wing because they have gone bat shit crazy. I've also never once said I agree with everything g Obama does but once again you and your circle jerkers just assume, that because I dislike the right wing that it makes me a liberal..ect..ect..

I call myself an American, I don't put any party before that, something you right wingers should learn how to do. I do however usually vote Democrat as I usually find most right wingers to be.. Well bat shit crazy or just full of bullshit. However, once again I've never once called my self a liberal...so if you think calling me a faux-liberal makes me sad, lol well it doesn't.

I was just calling out your simpleton thinking being you fit the definition pretty well, being you love to tell us how liberal you are.

Let's see now...

1: Objects to being labelled
2: Then applies labels to others
3: Uses insults to try to shut down discussion

Yup, he's a liberal all right

[crockett]

Originally Posted by MK Ultra

Let's see now...

1: Objects to being labelled
2: Then applies labels to others
3: Uses insults to try to shut down discussion

Yup, he's a liberal all right

I never objected to being labeled. I just told him he was using the wrong label.


Try again..

[Robbie]

So crockett, do you think the polar ice caps will be gone in 7 years?
Or do you think Al Gore is lying to make more money?

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

ah fuck it, let me rub your idiot nose in it now instead:
http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/octob.../#.VDvXRhbtC-I

"""""The cold waters of Earth?s deep ocean have not warmed measurably since 2005""""

"The sea level is still rising," Willis noted. "We're just trying to understand the nitty-gritty details."

- Nasa

12Clicks, just because you disagree with me is no reason to call me an idiot. I personally have a concern that all the pollution we are sending into the air and water is doing some real damage, and like you I'm sure, I want to learn as much as possible and hopefully do something about it.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

science is truth, period?

google fucks up science because, you know, tom cruise is gay?


this post actually explains pretty good **********'s comprehension level

Don't strain yourself too hard to understand my point. You might hurt yourself.

Originally Posted by Robbie

I keep seeing that faux-liberals dismiss the Tea Party, I guess because of crazy Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin trying to hitch their wagons to it.

Aren't the REAL Tea Party members a lot different than the dozens of lifetime/career politicians who pretend to suddenly have converted to it to try and get votes?

I would see the liberal media on MSNBC and CNN talk about Bachman and Palin and Cruz as the "leaders" of the Tea Party (much the same way they would claim that Rush Limbaugh was the "leader" of the Republican Party) in an effort to destroy that movement.

And then I would see the actual REAL Tea Party representatives from different areas of the country go on the news and refute that over and over saying that "no" there are are no "leaders" of the Tea Party and that their party stands for "Taxed Enough Already"

The real people in that movement don't want lifetime/career politicians and they are sick of the Feds taxing us and then spending trillions on stupid shit like invading other countries.

It's the liberal mindset that tries to make them "bad" somehow. (as they do with ANYTHING that isn't a Democrat)

I think Palin and Bachman and Cruz are simply bureaucrats who did some polling and figured out that they could gain political clout by attaching their names to the TEA Party.

But that would be too much a stretch for people who get all their info from liberal biased sources who do nothing but parrot Democrat Party machine talking points.

"Team Sports" once again. It's a sad situation, and one of the reasons that nothing ever really changes.

Interestping point, Robbie, and maybe you are right. When I think "Tea Party", I think Palin, Cruz, Bachman as perhaps not the leaders, but definitely the spokespeople for it. If they're not true leaders, who is? (I'm not trying to poke you in the ribs - its an honest question - I really don't know).

And you're right, MSNBC constantly refers to Rush as the "Leader of the GOP". Of course Reince Priebus is (Isn't he? I could be wrong). MSNBC jokingly calls Rush the leader of the GOP because it seems that talking points he may use today are repeated by GOP'ers in office the next day once in a while.

What I would really love to see, is some people paying attention to what scientists are saying, and start curbing emissions, cleaning up the air and water, and lay seriously heavy penalties against companies that pollute on purpose or by accident. That's all. What makes me sick, are heavy polluters get away with it again and again, AND treat people like idiots, AND fight to bend the rules, AND try to reduce / eliminate the EPA, etc. It takes a stupid, preventable problem, and makes it much worse.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Robbie

So crockett, do you think the polar ice caps will be gone in 7 years?
Or do you think Al Gore is lying to make more money?

Robbie I'm afraid you just don't understand what is happening. Please let me explain.

First, Yes, the ice is thicker and covers almost 2 million kilometres more than it did 2 years ago, but it doesn't mean that the earth is cooling or that the problem of climate change is going away, or even that Al Gore was wrong.

From http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astro...aggerated.html

"Arctic sea ice reaches a minimum in late September every year. The overall trend for the amount of ice at that time is decreasing; in other words, there is less ice all the time. Some years there is more than others, some less. But the trend is down.

In 2012, a mix of unusual causes created conditions where the minimum reached a record low, far below normal. The next year, in 2013, the ice didn?t reach quite so low a minimum extent, and this year looks very much the same as 2013. But saying the ice is ?recovering? is, to put it delicately, what comes out the south end of a north-facing bull. You can?t compare two years with a record low the year before that was due to unusual circumstances; you have to look at the average over time.



You should read the entire article - it will help explain what is really going on.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

So crockett, do you think the polar ice caps will be gone in 7 years?
Or do you think Al Gore is lying to make more money?

I'm not a scientist, and Al Gore is not my God.

I have no idea what the time line is for the polar ice caps melting. However I have seen enough evidence to understand that they are in fact melting at an increasing speed.

I'd be perfectly happy if Al Gore was proven wrong and the ice melting stops, as that means we wouldn't end up with many countries costal,areas flooding and displacing millions of people.

What I do think is odd, is that you are so obsessed with Al Gore, meanwhile you seem to have no concerns with the Koch bros.

You are obsessed with a guy that is no longer in office and might make some money writing books. Meanwhile Koch Bros have been responsible for ridiculous amounts of pollution as well as deaths due to their putting profits before maintenance.

Added to this, they are the main supporters of the anti-global warming theory, meanwhile you have no worries about their mucking around in politics where there is clear profits to be had by denial.

So Robbie, if you are such a deep independent thinker, why is it you only complain about Al Gore yet never have anything to say about the Koch Bros and their lies?

[crockett]

Robbie did you know from 1999 to 2003, Koch industries had 300 oil spills across 6 states?

In 1996 a butane line operated by Koch, ruptured and caused an explosion killing two children and displaced 25 families? Meanwhile they had a policy of "no" preventive maintenance and a policy of "fix it when it's broke" which lead to this explosion.

These are the guys that feed you your anti global warming hoopla. Yet Al Gore is the bad guy that you spend so much time upset over..

Please get back to me when Al gore's books kill someone or burns down their house..

[ilnjscb]

I don't know the koch brothers or al gore and neither do any of you. I met al gore, but I don't know him. I would probably punch the koch brothers in their respective dicks if I had any backbone. Al gore honestly didn't seem like a bad guy but politicians are good at acting, of course. I know to him I was completely invisible, as he had to meet like 1000 people.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by crockett

I have no idea what the time line is for the polar ice caps melting. However I have seen enough evidence to understand that they are in fact melting at an increasing speed.

So Robbie, if you are such a deep independent thinker, why is it you only complain about Al Gore yet never have anything to say about the Koch Bros and their lies?

1. No, the evidence is that they are expanding (in case you missed all that about the RECORD growth of 29% in 2013). And scientists are saying that within the next couple of hundred years the polar ice caps will extend far south as they did in the 14th century.
But I guess your "evidence" that you get from your "Team" doesn't mention that.

2. If you were to post incessant exaggerations about Al Gore, then I would correct you on that too. Since you only defend the members of your "team" I never have the opportunity to refute you.
Go ahead, attack Gore and use the same kind of rhetoric that you do about others. When I see it, I'll point out where you're wrong for doing that.

You honestly can't see how extreme and biased your political views are can you?
You mock me for NOT playing team sports and call me an "independent thinker" in parenthesis to denote that somehow I'm lying about my beliefs.

Well, I'm not. I have no reason to lie or be deceptive on a message board.

But you? You tend to post things that are exaggerations and deceptions with a clear agenda. Maybe you should ask yourself WHY you do that.

Is it just to troll? To vent?

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

1. No, the evidence is that they are expanding (in case you missed all that about the RECORD growth of 29% in 2013). And scientists are saying that within the next couple of hundred years the polar ice caps will extend far south as they did in the 14th century.
But I guess your "evidence" that you get from your "Team" doesn't mention that.

2. If you were to post incessant exaggerations about Al Gore, then I would correct you on that too. Since you only defend the members of your "team" I never have the opportunity to refute you.
Go ahead, attack Gore and use the same kind of rhetoric that you do about others. When I see it, I'll point out where you're wrong for doing that.

You honestly can't see how extreme and biased your political views are can you?
You mock me for NOT playing team sports and call me an "independent thinker" in parenthesis to denote that somehow I'm lying about my beliefs.

Well, I'm not. I have no reason to lie or be deceptive on a message board.

But you? You tend to post things that are exaggerations and deceptions with a clear agenda. Maybe you should ask yourself WHY you do that.

Is it just to troll? To vent?

No Robbie, global warming and ice melt is not looked at as a year by year basis and then determined to which way it's going. For the last 100 years the average temp has risen and the ice has melted.

For the last 50 years once again the temp has risen and ice sheet has shrunk.

For the last 20 years the temp has risen the ice sheet has shrunk.

For the last 10 years the temp has risen the ice sheet has shrunk.

Even over the last 5 years the temp has risen and the ice sheets have shrunk..

Yet once again Robbie Logic to the rescue, because we have a 2 years that the ice has grown, but the temp has still risen.. Yet Robbie is here to declare everyone is wrong.

Yep Robbie Logic to the rescue..

You don't look at one or two years and decide everything is ok, you look at 10 year periods of time as scientist do. Come back in even 5 years and let's see where we are...

[2MuchMark]

Robbie, Crockett is right. Look at the long term decline.

[Robbie]

crockett and Mark....I have looked at it.

So now that it's starting to reverse...you guys are ignoring that.

I guess we'll just have to wait a couple of decades for you guys to decide that it's okay?

And I also cited scientists saying that within a hundred years or so they believe the ice caps will advance south as they did a few centuries ago (which we have been warming up from).

You guys are kinda just choosing the info you want to listen to. It fits with what you seem to want to believe so desperately.

I have already told you my feelings: IF there was real danger, then WHY aren't govt.'s taking REAL action like we did when WW2 happened?
Instead...Pres. Obama is upping the amount of CO2 exponentially by bombing the fuck out of the Middle East to destroy the newest "boogie man".

So ISIS beats out man made climate change right?

I think Pres. Obama has access to more info on what's really happening with climate change than you or I or crockett. And yet, he seems perfectly content with doing nothing except pushing for more money with carbon tax and carbon credit trading for Al Gore.

Think about that.

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by **********

Robbie, Crockett is right. Look at the long term decline.

Crockett is wrong.

And 100 or 150 years is not long term.

All of this hand-wringing over declining ice at the poles is based on satellite observation dating back to 1979 - a whole whopping 35 years!

You alarmists need to step away from the panic button and go find a genuine problem to solve.



.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Robbie

crockett and Mark....I have looked at it.

So now that it's starting to reverse...you guys are ignoring that.

I guess we'll just have to wait a couple of decades for you guys to decide that it's okay?

And I also cited scientists saying that within a hundred years or so they believe the ice caps will advance south as they did a few centuries ago (which we have been warming up from).

You guys are kinda just choosing the info you want to listen to. It fits with what you seem to want to believe so desperately.

I have already told you my feelings: IF there was real danger, then WHY aren't govt.'s taking REAL action like we did when WW2 happened?
Instead...Pres. Obama is upping the amount of CO2 exponentially by bombing the fuck out of the Middle East to destroy the newest "boogie man".

So ISIS beats out man made climate change right?

I think Pres. Obama has access to more info on what's really happening with climate change than you or I or crockett. And yet, he seems perfectly content with doing nothing except pushing for more money with carbon tax and carbon credit trading for Al Gore.

Think about that.

Robbie, the way you draw conclusions from various events is surprising, but also wrong.

Some things such as Wars, pollute, and there is no way around it. Other things such as personal transportation pollute too, but there IS away around that. Some people get their electricity from Coal which pollutes, but there are several alternatives that do not. I hope you get my point.

So you don't believe the science that tells you ice is melting, and don't believe it has an impact. That's too bad, but ok. What about the pollution in the air that is making it harder to breathe or see down the street? Or what about the pollution in the water that makes it poison to drink, that is killing sea life, ruining the landscape and even catching fire in some places in the midwest?

Just because you dismiss them doesn't mean that these real problems do not exist. I think it is very important to explore alternative sources of energy and look for cleaner solutions that help our planet, and help us at the same time.

Some people choose to sit on their hands, and believe the ads by big oil, happily paying too much for energy that is expensive, dirty, poison, and constantly mishandled. If you're one of those people then I feel sorry for you. GFY is a fun, fucked up place, but everyone here is actually pretty high tech compared to others. How can you be high-tech, but be stuck in 50's-Era thinking?

Peace.

[Robbie]

Mark the air is cleaner now than at any time in the last 100 years.

The military just today released more CO2 AND real pollution into the air than every car in the U.S. combined.

The only person "stuck" in a way of thinking is you. You keep presenting "facts" that simply aren't accurate and acting like it's "okay" for the govt. to continue to do exactly what you are claiming is "bad" for citizens to do.

Look, either CO2 is "bad" or it isn't. Either global warming is caused by man and is the biggest thing facing mankind...or it isn't.

Apparently, Al Gore uses it to make money on "carbon trading" and the Federal Govt. of the United States has followed suit with "carbon tax".
And meanwhile the U.S. does NOTHING to stop CO2 emissions and instead are the greatest contributor to them.

How in the hell does that make me a "50's era" thinking person? I'm just pointing out the real world to you.
You seem to be ignoring that and instead going with what I believe is a false narrative from a political party and the scientists that receive money and funding from the individuals and companies that profit from alarmists rhetoric.

If there is REALLY a problem...then let me know when something is being done by the govt. that doesn't have anything to do with profit.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

crockett and Mark....I have looked at it.

So now that it's starting to reverse...you guys are ignoring that.

I guess we'll just have to wait a couple of decades for you guys to decide that it's okay?

And I also cited scientists saying that within a hundred years or so they believe the ice caps will advance south as they did a few centuries ago (which we have been warming up from).

You guys are kinda just choosing the info you want to listen to. It fits with what you seem to want to believe so desperately.

I have already told you my feelings: IF there was real danger, then WHY aren't govt.'s taking REAL action like we did when WW2 happened?
Instead...Pres. Obama is upping the amount of CO2 exponentially by bombing the fuck out of the Middle East to destroy the newest "boogie man".

So ISIS beats out man made climate change right?

I think Pres. Obama has access to more info on what's really happening with climate change than you or I or crockett. And yet, he seems perfectly content with doing nothing except pushing for more money with carbon tax and carbon credit trading for Al Gore.

Think about that.

I'm not ignoring anything.. I've argued this with you before when you try to cherry pick a single years's stats to try to prove your point. Scientist use a 10 year average.

2 years in a row of more ice is nice and let's hope it continues till we replace what's melted, but it's not likely as the over all trend is melting.. It's going to take 5 straight years of gains or no overall loss to overcome a 10 year average of melting.

However the temp warming trend has remained unchanged, meaning even if we were to get 5 years of gains on the ice, it's likely not going to overcome the temp rise.due to the higher temps causing the oceans to warm.

[EonBlue]

This is the kind of mental damage that smoking too much of the "alarmist" reefer causes:

Neil Young: Forget ISIS, Fight Climate Change Instead

Young slammed both Democrats and Republicans for ignoring the plight of the planet, suggesting that environmental damage from the "carbon footprint" of the U.S. military was a greater threat than Islamic terror in the Mideast.

[...]

In one portion of the interview, Young actually suggests that the U.S. is worse than terror groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda, because they have "one percent" of the carbon footprint of the American military.

I like Neil Young's music but he really needs to step away from the soapbox because that right there is a bunch of ridiculous nonsense. Things like this do more to discredit the alarmist cause than anything else because it is just so over the top, so irrational, so juvenile and completely misguidedly wrong. People start to tune out when they hear BS like this - especially when it comes from wealthy celebrities.




.

[SuckOnThis]

2014 on Track to Be Hottest Year on Record


Wait, global warming is a myth cause I saw some snow in my backyard last winter.

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

2014 on Track to Be Hottest Year on Record


Wait, global warming is a myth cause I saw some snow in my backyard last winter.

Oh no! We're all going to die!

NOAA has been caught adjusting temperature records to make the past look cooler and the modern times look warmer.

NOAA/NASA Dramatically Altered US Temperatures After The Year 2000

But you go ahead and keep running for the hills - I am sure it will be cooler up there so you can survive the excruciating heat.




.

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by EonBlue

Oh no! We're all going to die!

NOAA has been caught adjusting temperature records to make the past look cooler and the modern times look warmer.

NOAA/NASA Dramatically Altered US Temperatures After The Year 2000

But you go ahead and keep running for the hills - I am sure it will be cooler up there so you can survive the excruciating heat.




.

Posting a wordpress blog by some crazy ass right winger certainly helps your argument. Is he the one that told you man could survive on 1000 times the CO2 we have now?

[PAR]

Are we still disusing if climate change is happening,
or if its warming or cooling,
or the cause being or not being CO2?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by **********

Don't strain yourself too hard to understand my point. You might hurt yourself.

several of us quoted that silly comment of yours to point out how ridiculous it was, so no, your jab fails here.

besides, we all got what you were attempting to communicate, which was you assume everyone embraces science with the same bias you do.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by EonBlue

This is the kind of mental damage that smoking too much of the "alarmist" reefer causes:

Neil Young: Forget ISIS, Fight Climate Change Instead

Thing is...he would be correct IF the alarmists bullshit was true.

Think about it...IF the stuff that people like crockett and ********** believe in were true, then stupid shit like ISIS would mean nothing.

The entire world would be coming together and trying to save their asses.

Instead...nobody is doing anything EXCEPT figuring out ways to make money off of the alarmists propaganda.

Neil Young's only fault is actually believing that stupidity.
When Neil Young was a young man in the 1960's and 1970's there is no way in hell he would be accepting this kind of "science" without being skeptical.

But I guess that as the decades roll by you can find yourself knee-jerk reacting to the latest thing that you perceive as helping your fellow man.

I can't find fault with Neil for wanting to do the "right" thing. Who doesn't?
And the statement he makes is exactly the point I've been making. WHY isn't the govt. focusing on this IF it's so important?

The answer: Because it's not. And the Pres. knows it's not. Otherwise he WOULD be doing something about it instead of creating more CO2 than any of us ever will by bombing ISIS.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by EonBlue

Oh no! We're all going to die!

NOAA has been caught adjusting temperature records to make the past look cooler and the modern times look warmer.

NOAA/NASA Dramatically Altered US Temperatures After The Year 2000

But you go ahead and keep running for the hills - I am sure it will be cooler up there so you can survive the excruciating heat.




.

"Steven Goddard" is a pseudonym, and he lied, according to This

Originally Posted by Robbie

Mark the air is cleaner now than at any time in the last 100 years.

Yes of course it is, at least here in Canada and the United States. According to the American Lung Association, "Air quality across the United States has improved dramatically since 1970 when Congress passed the Clean Air Act in response to growing pollution problems and fouled air from coast to coast. According to data from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), levels of all major air pollution contaminants (ozone, nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, particulate matter and lead) are down significantly since 1970; carbon monoxide levels alone dropped by more than 70 percent."

(BUT: There are many in government that want to abolish the EPA. Do you really want to let them do that?

Carbon Dioxide has not been classified as pollution until only just very recently. CO2 is also one of the main greenhouse gasses.

Originally Posted by Robbie

The only person "stuck" in a way of thinking is you. You keep presenting "facts" that simply aren't accurate and acting like it's "okay" for the govt. to continue to do exactly what you are claiming is "bad" for citizens to do.

Not at all. I am all for progress, but only if it goes hand in hand with keeping the planet clean and cool, and paying attention to warning sites such as climate change, and pushing governments to act on them, instead of pander to Oil and other special interest groups.

Originally Posted by Robbie

Look, either CO2 is "bad" or it isn't.
Either global warming is caused by man and is the biggest thing facing mankind...or it isn't.

CO2 by itself isn't bad -- It's *too much* CO2 in the atmosphere is what is bad. The earth already has a greenhouse gas / effect in place with CO2, Methane and other gases in the atmosphere. What we humans are doing is elevating these levels unnecessarily, and taking away the earths ability to absorb those gases.

Originally Posted by Robbie

Apparently, Al Gore uses it to make money on "carbon trading" and the Federal Govt. of the United States has followed suit with "carbon tax".

I get it, you hate Al Gore. Al Gore is no scientist, and he's not the only one sounding the alarm. If you hate him, stop talking about him, and look beyond him as you do your research.

Originally Posted by Robbie

And meanwhile the U.S. does NOTHING to stop CO2 emissions and instead are the greatest contributor to them.

No that's not true. The USA contributes 19% (Canada 2% Woohoo!). The largest is China at 23%.



And of course the US government and the EPA are working to reduce pollution. They might be further along if it weren't for certain republicans.

Originally Posted by Robbie

How in the hell does that make me a "50's era" thinking person?

I don't know, it's just my opinion of you. You remind me of someone who seems to be stuck in the 50's. Sorry if I offended you with it, I take it back.

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'm just pointing out the real world to you.
You seem to be ignoring that and instead going with what I believe is a false narrative from a political party and the scientists that receive money and funding from the individuals and companies that profit from alarmists rhetoric.

It may be alarmist, but its not rhetoric, because its provable science. From my point of view, you are a science denier. You are also assuming that my point of view is political when really it's not. While I said with Liberals, I'm not an American. From my point of view, the Science is there, and some politicians, mostly US republicans from what I can see, are denying it, and spreading false or misleading information to create further denial in an attempt to sway public opinion.

Originally Posted by Robbie

If there is REALLY a problem...then let me know when something is being done by the govt. that doesn't have anything to do with profit.

There is nothing wrong with profit. If a green energy technology could power the world and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, why not do it for profit? Profit drives innovation, and attracts scientists and engineers. Nothing wrong with profit unless the people profiting from the energy you buy is poisoning your air and water, and calling you stupid for being concerned about it.

Peace.

[Robbie]

Mark I don't "hate" Al Gore. I think he's smart. And he has more scientific data in front of him than you and Crockett will EVER see. He has the money and the power to know what is really going on.

I'm just saying to you...IF it's true, then why is his response to it just a way to make himself a billionaire?

And Pres. Obama has even more data and resources at his disposal. Is he mobilizing the country? No.

And by the way, when I say "the US is creating more CO2"...I'm talking about the Federal Govt. and the military.

Also on your comment about the EPA. Yes, the EPA DID it's job.
But now it is overreaching and actually creating LAW and calling it "regulations". That is unconstitutional. Only Congress can pass federal law.

The EPA does need to be abolished. Like every other bureaucracy it has grown over it's limit and now exists mainly to feed itself and continue to get funding.

It needs to be shut down and a smaller more efficient organization put in it's place. It's obsolete. This isn't 1970. It's 2014. And the EPA is causing more harm to our country than any "good" it may be doing in this day and age.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by **********

There is nothing wrong with profit.

As long as it's a Democrat making the money right?

If it's the Koch brothers or anyone not affiliated with the Democrat party in the U.S., then they are obviously greedy bastards who don't care.

So guys like Al Gore...it's okay for them to make billions of dollars while the planet is supposedly dying?

You see...that's where you show that you aren't able to look at this with an unbiased view.

You tend to dismiss any wrong from one Team (the Dems) and attack fervently every wrong of the other "team" (Republicans)

I'm telling you...they are both of the same cloth. Interested in nothing but power and money.

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

Posting a wordpress blog by some crazy ass right winger certainly helps your argument. Is he the one that told you man could survive on 1000 times the CO2 we have now?

Oh great - another leftist that thinks he's funny and smarter than everyone else.

Thumbs up for you chief.




.

[PR_Glen]

how did climate change become a partisan issue?

peoples sense of self importance around here is so revealing it's not funny. If you can keep your property and block clean of pollution and garbage you've just done as much good as you are ever going to do for the environment and this planet. Plant a tree or two and you are leading the pack, anything beyond that you are just jerking off because you have no control over anything beyond that... and none of us ever will.

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by **********

"Steven Goddard" is a pseudonym, and he lied, according to This

So what if it's a pseudonym. Knowing how crazy and mentally unhinged climate activists can be I would use a pseudonym too.

And besides, he didn't lie. He simply analyzes data. He may make mistakes in his analysis but it is now well documented, by him and others, that the NOAA does in fact adjust the raw data. Why do they adjust the raw data? What are they hoping to achieve? Just the fact that they adjust raw data should be cause for deep suspicion, if not alarm, in any rational thinking person.

And then there is this from the link you posted:

As I wrote back in January 2009: The collection of US data is not even remotely close to the claimed ?high quality? (except in a relative sense to that of the global data). Data from the rest of the world is far worse in coverage, comparability (both geographically and temporally), and accuracy. These systems are grossly underfunded vs the seriousness of the public policy issues.

That is spot on - the temperature record, especially the surface record, is unreliable and yet it forms the basis for this entire fiasco. On top of that agencies like the NOAA are adjusting data that is unreliable in the first place. What kind of outcome are you expecting from that? GIGO - garbage in, garbage out.

Originally Posted by **********;

Carbon Dioxide has not been classified as pollution until only just very recently. CO2 is also one of the main greenhouse gasses.

[...]

CO2 by itself isn't bad -- It's *too much* CO2 in the atmosphere is what is bad. The earth already has a greenhouse gas / effect in place with CO2, Methane and other gases in the atmosphere. What we humans are doing is elevating these levels unnecessarily, and taking away the earths ability to absorb those gases.

CO2 is not pollution. Just because some backward thinking, incompetent and corrupt bureaucrat at a government agency decides, for reasons of political expediency, to classify it as such does not make it so.

We don't have too much CO2 now and we will never see too much CO2 in our lifetimes or in the existence of humanity. Real science is already calling into question the role of CO2 in the greenhouse effect and the climate's sensitivity to increased CO2. Even the IPCC has reduced its proposed climate sensitivity to CO2 and we are likely to see further reductions going forward as new science comes to light.

For someone who claims to love science so much and know so much about it you sure have bought in to the whole "science is settled" lie even though you should know better.

Spending money on carbon reduction, carbon sequestration or anything else to reduce CO2 in the atmosphere is a crime against humanity. All of that money could be spent finding real solutions to real problems.




.

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

how did climate change become a partisan issue?

That is a difficult question to answer. But I am going to assume that anyone who calls me a "right winger" for questioning absolute climate dogma is a leftist.

If you can keep your property and block clean of pollution and garbage you've just done as much good as you are ever going to do for the environment and this planet. Plant a tree or two and you are leading the pack, anything beyond that you are just jerking off because you have no control over anything beyond that... and none of us ever will.

That is well put.




.