Against America and/or The War? - READ THIS! - GoFuckYourself.com

DavePlays · 02-15-2003, 02:18 PM

This is a little long - but I did not want to edit one single word of it........

No matter what your views on President Bush's statement of upcoming war, this, from an English journalist, is very interesting. For those of you not familiar with the UK's Daily Mirror, this is a notoriously left-wing daily that is normally not supportive of the Colonials across the Atlantic.

Tony Parsons Daily Mirror September 11, 2002

ONE year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting -- the mass murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty of the human race, September 11 was up there, with Pol Pot's mountain of skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps. An unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely the world could agree on one thing - nobody deserves this fate. Surely there could be consensus: the victims were truly innocent, the perpetrators truly evil.

But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's comeuppance. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year. There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country - too loud, too rich, too full of themselves and so much happier than Europeans - but it has become an epidemic. And it seems incredible to me. More than that, it turns my stomach.

America is this country's greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language and blood. A little over half a century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? And exactly a year ago, thousands of ordinary men, women and children - not just Americans, but from dozens of countries - were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray them?

What touched the heart about those who died in the twin towers and on the planes was that we recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's son and somebody's daughter, husbands and wives, and children, some unborn.

And these people brought it on themselves? And their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter?

These days you don't have to be some dust-encrusted nut job in Kabul or Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan. The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission.

The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September 11.

Remember, remember.

Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were burned alive.

Remember those people leaping to their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers.

Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive.

Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum.

Remember, remember - and realize that America has never retaliated for
9/11 in anything like the way it could have.

So a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked without a trial in Camp X-ray?

Pass the Kleenex...

So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semi-automatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti.

AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it didn't is a sign of strength. American voices are already being raised against attacking Iraq - that's what a democracy is for. How many in the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder of 9/11 was an abomination?

When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street. America watched all of that - and didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism." A real war.

The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of hell," if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like you wouldn't believe.

The US is the most militarily powerful nation that ever strode the face of the earth. The campaign in Afghanistan may have been less than perfect and the planned war on Iraq may be misconceived.

But don't blame America for not bringing peace and light to these wretched countries. How many democracies are there in the Middle East, or in the Muslim world? You can count them on the fingers of one hand -assuming you haven't had any chopped off for minor shoplifting.

I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle. But I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh. Above all, America is hated because it is what every country wants to be - rich, free, strong, open, optimistic. Not ground down by the past, or religion, or some caste system. America is the best friend this country ever had and we should start remembering that.

Or do you really think the USA is the root of all evil? Tell it to the loved ones of the men and women who leaped to their death from the burning towers. Tell it to the nursing mothers whose husbands died on one of the hijacked planes, or were ripped apart in a collapsing skyscraper. And tell it to the hundreds of young widows whose husbands worked for the New York Fire Department.

To our shame, George Bush gets a worse press than Saddam Hussein. Once we were told that Saddam gassed the Kurds, tortured his own people and set up rape-camps in Kuwait. Now we are told he likes Quality Street.

Save me the orange center, oh mighty one!

Remember, remember, September 11.

One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against America.

No, do more than remember. Never forget.

Pete · 02-15-2003, 02:23 PM

This was posted once already.....next

gothweb · 02-15-2003, 02:24 PM

I think a lot of people forget that. Its hard to watch the anti-War demonstrators... Because they are, in part, demonstrating against *me*.

DavePlays · 02-15-2003, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb
I think a lot of people forget that. Its hard to watch the anti-War demonstrators... Because they are, in part, demonstrating against *me*.

I agree....

and sorry if that had been posted - I didn't know.

But to be honest... I'm glad it got posted again.

Some people STILL don't get it.

Sly_RJ · 02-15-2003, 02:27 PM

I read about half of that.

Just one comment: a good chunk of the arguments I've seen against this possible "war" haven't had anything to do with the war or Iraq, they're mostly centered around their hate for Bush or the United States.

Scott McD · 02-15-2003, 02:29 PM

And yet New York streets were filled today...

02-15-2003, 02:35 PM

God I fucking hate how people keep on bringing up 9-11 as an excuse for everything.

I am personally sick and fucking tired of hearing about it. It's being put into context every single fucking time. Get over it. There's been millions of innocent killed over the past few decades, and nobody gives a flying fuck about those people.

Burning towers, heroic firemen. Sentimentalism ^ 10. Gimme a fucking break.

Sly_RJ · 02-15-2003, 02:39 PM

You're right. Let's forget about the Holocaust too.

In fact, I don't think the Holocaust ever really happened. It was bull shit American propaganda used to persuade the American (and European) public to cheer on their troops and send them in to take care of Hitler.

DavePlays · 02-15-2003, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Equinox
God I fucking hate how people keep on bringing up 9-11 as an excuse for everything.

I am personally sick and fucking tired of hearing about it. It's being put into context every single fucking time. Get over it. There's been millions of innocent killed over the past few decades, and nobody gives a flying fuck about those people.

Burning towers, heroic firemen. Sentimentalism ^ 10. Gimme a fucking break.

You obviously weren't there, and you obviously didn't have a spouse or child killed that day yourself. I understand that with some people - that's what it takes.

Or it's all simply beyond your comprehension.

DavePlays · 02-15-2003, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
You're right. Let's forget about the Holocaust too.

In fact, I don't think the Holocaust ever really happened. It was bull shit American propaganda used to persuade the American (and European) public to cheer on their troops and send them in to take care of Hitler.

Right - and Pearl Harbor...

I'm sure we had no business in WW2 either.

jimmyf · 02-15-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Equinox
God I fucking hate how people keep on bringing up 9-11 as an excuse for everything.

I am personally sick and fucking tired of hearing about it. It's being put into context every single fucking time. Get over it. There's been millions of innocent killed over the past few decades, and nobody gives a flying fuck about those people.

Burning towers, heroic firemen. Sentimentalism ^ 10. Gimme a fucking break.

you're obviously a Pin Head with his Pin Head up his ass.

FUCK YOU

Oh let me add. I wouldn't piss on you if your guts were on fire Pin Head

02-15-2003, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
You're right. Let's forget about the Holocaust too.

In fact, I don't think the Holocaust ever really happened. It was bull shit American propaganda used to persuade the American (and European) public to cheer on their troops and send them in to take care of Hitler.

I am not trying to downplay what happened there. Neither it is beyond my conprehension. I understand very well what it meant to the relatives, the world economics and the way we think.

I am saying that it has been overplayed by the media. The effect it once had on me is long gone, I too was once in disbelief, angry and pissed off. Now, everytime I see some coverage on the TV or newspaper about it, I switch the channel or turn the page.

02-15-2003, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyf
you're obviously a Pin Head with his Pin Head up his ass. FUCK YOU
Oh let me add. I wouldn't piss on you if your guts were on fire Pin Head

Alright, I certainly can live with that.

DavePlays · 02-15-2003, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Equinox

I am not trying to downplay what happened there. Neither it is beyond my conprehension. I understand very well what it meant to the relatives, the world economics and the way we think.

I am saying that it has been overplayed by the media. The effect it once had on me is long gone, I too was once in disbelief, angry and pissed off. Now, everytime I see some coverage on the TV or newspaper about it, I switch the channel or turn the page.

I think Webster defines that as Living in denial

jimmyf · 02-15-2003, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

I think Webster defines that as Living in denial

me thinks maybe you be right on.

02-15-2003, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavePlays

I think Webster defines that as Living in denial

Not at all.

I have (obviously) never experienced the Holocaust. BUT from reading, hearing and seeing coverage about what happened until 45, has had a much larger impact for myself and it caused me to hate Neonazism and any kind of racial injustice more than I hate anything else in this world.

Now, I have, along with you all, experienced what happened the day of 9-11. Does it make me hate muslims or the entire arab world - or does it make me overreact towards a 'towelhead' I see walking on the side of the road, assuming he's a fucking terrorist that wants to blow up my family in the next supermarket? Nope.

Hey, it's just about opinions here. Agree with me, or not. In the end it doesn't really matter, now does it?

02-15-2003, 03:00 PM

It doesn't matter if the war in the Middle East if justified or not. It's up to everyone to figure that out by him/herself.

We all know it will happen, no matter if we think that it stinks or not.

CDSmith · 02-15-2003, 03:01 PM

Just saw an investigative report-type program the other night about a US navy pilot who was shot down over Iraq shortly before the Gulf war occured. The pilot was presumed dead because he didn't use his radio for help, and if he had ejected safely he would have certainly called for help. No search and rescue was done because of that.

In later years, the pilot's best friend kept digging, until it was discovered that the pilot was possibly, and probably, still alive and being held in Iraq. The investigation resumed, and the secretary of the navy finally listed the pilot as "missing in action" instead of "killed in action"..... and there were reliable reports from Iraqi defectors that indicated the pilot had been captured, and had NOT died in the crash.

The reason given as to why this pilot wasn't returned to the USA with all the other prisoners of war?....... It was because the US didn't ASK for him. Fucking Iraqis can suck goat shit through a straw for that, as far as I'm concerned. "Didn't ask for him"... Fuckers........ no one should have to ASK for the return of a POW once a war is over. How many years has it been since then? and.... he's still not home. The Iraqi's say he probably was eaten by wolves. His uniform was found though, when the crash site was finally made accessible to the US military people....... and guess what? The guy's uniform was found, INTACT, no blood, just some even cuts up the sides of the legs where it was obviously CUT OFF HIM. The aircraft was picked clean of technology by an obviously expert team.

Talk to me about the fucking Iraqi's and their rights. If you do you're a fucktard.

You can research more about this incident of Commander "Spiker" here.... http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Spi...+pilot%2C+Iraq

And, as to 9/11.... there were somewhere between 300 and 400 Canadians working in the twin towers that morning, and there were a handful of Canadians on those flights that crashed that morning. Let a few more planes be hijacked by ragheads and crashed into the beloved buildings of Paris, London, Sydney or Berlin and then see how those protesters feel when they're consoling their fucking loved ones over lost family members.

This Canadian is behind the US in their efforts to put the smackdown on the bullshit in the middle east. 100%.

Thank you.

sacX · 02-15-2003, 04:21 PM

1.5 million people die a year of malaria, hundreds of thousands from gastroentertitis and other preventable diseases. Then there's those that die from from influenza, H.I.V, Tb and numerous other infections. Why isn't there a war on these?

The attack on the WTC was unjustifiable anyway you look at it, but there are equally horrible things happening around the world every year, where MANY more people die, and often children. Do you know what child mortality is like in most of the African continent?

I'm sorry if a sentimental article on the WTC doesn't convince me that invading Iraq is a good idea. Iraq and the WTC are not connected in any convincing way.

Also I'm sick to death of people concluding that being anti-war = anti-US. I'm just anti a foreign policy that is quick to consider war.

SquarePants · 02-15-2003, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith
Just saw an investigative report-type program the other night about a US navy pilot who was shot down over Iraq shortly before the Gulf war occured. The pilot was presumed dead because he didn't use his radio for help, and if he had ejected safely he would have certainly called for help. No search and rescue was done because of that.

In later years, the pilot's best friend kept digging, until it was discovered that the pilot was possibly, and probably, still alive and being held in Iraq. The investigation resumed, and the secretary of the navy finally listed the pilot as "missing in action" instead of "killed in action"..... and there were reliable reports from Iraqi defectors that indicated the pilot had been captured, and had NOT died in the crash.

The reason given as to why this pilot wasn't returned to the USA with all the other prisoners of war?....... It was because the US didn't ASK for him. Fucking Iraqis can suck goat shit through a straw for that, as far as I'm concerned. "Didn't ask for him"... Fuckers........ no one should have to ASK for the return of a POW once a war is over. How many years has it been since then? and.... he's still not home. The Iraqi's say he probably was eaten by wolves. His uniform was found though, when the crash site was finally made accessible to the US military people....... and guess what? The guy's uniform was found, INTACT, no blood, just some even cuts up the sides of the legs where it was obviously CUT OFF HIM. The aircraft was picked clean of technology by an obviously expert team.

Talk to me about the fucking Iraqi's and their rights. If you do you're a fucktard.

You can research more about this incident of Commander "Spiker" here.... http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Spi...+pilot%2C+Iraq

And, as to 9/11.... there were somewhere between 300 and 400 Canadians working in the twin towers that morning, and there were a handful of Canadians on those flights that crashed that morning. Let a few more planes be hijacked by ragheads and crashed into the beloved buildings of Paris, London, Sydney or Berlin and then see how those protesters feel when they're consoling their fucking loved ones over lost family members.

This Canadian is behind the US in their efforts to put the smackdown on the bullshit in the middle east. 100%.

Thank you.

2 things. If they didn't return him, then maybe the war is still on? So we wouldn't be atacking, only continue the war.

2.

dig420 · 02-15-2003, 04:27 PM

Osama wants to kill Hussein as badly as he wants to kill americans, if not worse.

you might as well go to war with Czechoslovakia over 9-11, that's how relevant this is.

rooster · 02-15-2003, 04:33 PM

sure dig, that is almost as funny as when you said

"you ask would Bill Clinton be going to war. My answer is no, he was too smart to get in a battle that doesn't have a winning scenario under any circumstances. He was also smart enough to infiltrate Al-Qaeda and keep them down until your boy Bush got in office and decided that whatever Clinton did, he would do the opposite. "

Drugs fuck the mind.

The Craze · 02-15-2003, 04:33 PM

See the problem is, there is no direct connection here.

FYI, there is no proof yet Saddam has these weapons of mass destruction. Stop watching CNN, start watching C Span. Stop reading crap like that english paper. Bush is America's shame, an insult to democracy and to all the Americans defend.

Joe Sixpack · 02-15-2003, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Craze

LOL!

Jay_StandAhead · 02-15-2003, 04:37 PM

So in order to avoid thousands of People being killed in terrorist attacks, we should kill thousands of People?

Anti-War doesn't mean Anti-Americans. Most people in America's best friend countries are against an unjustified war. They aren't against a war if there is something to make war over.

Hey, did anyone notice how those Bin Laden tapes always surface in the "right" moments...

andi_germany · 02-15-2003, 04:38 PM

9/11 is no justification for war. Sure it is a tradgedy but it has to be seen into perspective.
How many people and even children die in the US because every teenager can buy a gun? But if someone challenges the gun laws you cry liberty violation.

The very sad thing about 9/11 is that the terrorist succeeded in a way noone could imagine. The US decided to change their way of live. They decided to throw privacy away and let the government spy on their citizens. You gave the CIA FBI and other agencies powers they desired for ages. You started to register and profile your citizens just because they were born elsewhere.

Billions of people are against this war, way more then people who want it. You can try to shut us up with propaganda or sentimental journalism but you will not succeed

rooster · 02-15-2003, 04:40 PM

the only thing that will shut up some people is radiation

Jay_StandAhead · 02-15-2003, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rooster
the only thing that will shut up some people is radiation

So cause they don't agree with you, you want to nuke them? or maybe I misread...

JFPdude · 02-15-2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Equinox

I am not trying to downplay what happened there. Neither it is beyond my conprehension. I understand very well what it meant to the relatives, the world economics and the way we think.

I am saying that it has been overplayed by the media. The effect it once had on me is long gone, I too was once in disbelief, angry and pissed off. Now, everytime I see some coverage on the TV or newspaper about it, I switch the channel or turn the page.

Unfortunately I don't share your views. The impact on me lingers still today when I reach for my cell phone to call my brother.

Or when I look upon my family photo and notice my younger brother is still in that photo.

Although thats the last family photo I will ever be able to have with my brother in it because his remains were returned to us, well whatever remains they were able to find was returned.

You feel safe walking around knowing this can happen at any moment in time again?

You feel safe enough to say just let Saddam be even though we know he is capable and of the mental mindset to let this happen again?

You should think of the affect these kinds of statements will bring to your business on an open forum message board.

How many people on this board lost someone they knew sept. 11th and how do you think thier feelings will affect thier judgement now that you have stated what you did ?

Thanks for making my list of people I help shorter.

rooster · 02-15-2003, 04:44 PM

The point I am making is it will take a mega terror attack before people open their eyes.

DrewKole · 02-15-2003, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Equinox
It doesn't matter if the war in the Middle East if justified or not. It's up to everyone to figure that out by him/herself.

We all know it will happen, no matter if we think that it stinks or not.

Welp, its good to know you're a nobody, and will always be a nobody in this business.

Or else I'd be afraid for you, to ever show your stupid ass to any of the conventions...

Go back to Germany, or wherever the fuck it is you came from, already. =)

BigFish · 02-15-2003, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rooster
The point I am making is it will take a mega terror attack before people open their eyes.

What they don't realize, is by then it'll be too late.

tony286 · 02-15-2003, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Osama wants to kill Hussein as badly as he wants to kill americans, if not worse.

That is so true and people forget that, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Also why is Osama still alive making tape recorded messages? Why arent we finding him? Also its very scarey that if you are anti war you are anti american, one has nothing to do with the other. It wasnt like Irag fighters bombed Boston and now no one supports us. In all my years I have never seen a administration that supports the idea if you disagree with us you are unamerican. Also what Mega attack? we kicked his ass when his army was twice the size it is now on his home turf lol

the indigo · 02-15-2003, 04:57 PM

I expect 10x more terrorist attacks on US after Bush attacks IRAQ...

That "we must go to war for the security of the United States" is complete bullshiiiitt.

Get a clue. Wake up.

Riiiiiiing Riiiiiiing.

Jay_StandAhead · 02-15-2003, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JFPdude

Unfortunately I don't share your views. The impact on me lingers still today when I reach for my cell phone to call my brother.

Or when I look upon my family photo and notice my younger brother is still in that photo.

Although thats the last family photo I will ever be able to have with my brother in it because his remains were returned to us, well whatever remains they were able to find was returned.

You feel safe walking around knowing this can happen at any moment in time again?

You feel safe enough to say just let Saddam be even though we know he is capable and of the mental mindset to let this happen again?

You should think of the affect these kinds of statements will bring to your business on an open forum message board.

How many people on this board lost someone they knew sept. 11th and how do you think thier feelings will affect thier judgement now that you have stated what you did ?

Thanks for making my list of people I help shorter.

I must say this is the statement that makes me agree with this war the most. (I'm not for or against the war)

I think Hussein should be disarmed. If we think he is capable of such terrorist attacks, he should definitly be disarmed.

The point that most intelligent people against war make is this:

You cannot go attack another independant nation without the UN approval. You cannot attack another country unless you have sufficient proof (which would lead to the UN approval).

This war is not only about removing Hussein, it is about international right.

What message do you send to China if you attack Iraq without UN approval? China has two neighbors who have Nuclear weapons (India and Pakistan). Pakistan support terrorism, and has a nuclear weapon. China would then be justified to attack its neighbors.

What message do you send to Russia? They will return to chechenya, strike goergia, and any country they think that represent a menace.

Even though America wouldn't attack anyone for no reasons, some countries would try to use the war on Iraq to justify their own wars.

I am not against of for this war. I am just saying that if we go to war, we should have the UN with us, cause otherwise, this could create a world crisis.

Sly_RJ · 02-15-2003, 05:06 PM

I don't quite understand the comments being made towards Equinox. I don't agree with him at all, and some of his statements made me go "whoa." But the "threats" of sorts are silly, IMO.

And I certainly wouldn't stop working with him because his views differ from mine.

Sly_RJ · 02-15-2003, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by the indigo
I expect 10x more terrorist attacks on US after Bush attacks IRAQ...

That "we must go to war for the security of the United States" is complete bullshiiiitt.

Get a clue. Wake up.

Riiiiiiing Riiiiiiing.

Why would we receive "10x more terrorist attacks" if Iraq supposedly had no stakes in 9/11 or prior terrorist activity?

Jay_StandAhead · 02-15-2003, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Why would we receive "10x more terrorist attacks" if Iraq supposedly had no stakes in 9/11 or prior terrorist activity?

Good point.

I guess his point *would* be that the other Arab states, or all the islamist would get pissed off at America for attacking Iraq...

dig420 · 02-15-2003, 05:13 PM

Rooster, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not true lol... Al Quaeda was totally infiltrated under the Clinton administration, they couldn't jack off under their burkas without us knowing about it. The incoming administration pulled all resources in the area after they came in. In fact they went out of their way to do everything totally opposite of the way the previous administration did it, including pulling out of the peace process in Palestine and other places. Hence 9-11 took us by surprise. Clinton publically accused Bin Laden of a plot to stage a strike in 2000 after attacks on embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, countries Bush couldn't find on a map.

The ugly truth is that Bush just isn't that bright. He was a C student in college, he's resentful of anyone who acts too 'smart' around him within his own administration, and this lack of intelligence and foresight is showing in the results of his administration.

Iran harbors Al Quaeda members, we know that. Pakistan harbors AQ training camps, we know that as well. Hussein is a SECULAR DICTATOR - Osama considers him a godless tyrant and an oppressor of Muslims. He hates him.

http://www.terrorism.com/documents/c...-request.shtml
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/side2/1054464

there's a ton of actual documented and factual information out there available for you. There's no need to rely on FOX news and Pat Robertson for your world news.

bikinihouse · 02-15-2003, 05:15 PM

you guys need real news...

http://www.antiwar.com

Sly_RJ · 02-15-2003, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jay[neX]

Good point.

I guess his point *would* be that the other Arab states, or all the islamist would get pissed off at America for attacking Iraq...

I must admit, your post above about the UN is the first I've read that actually holds some merit.

jimboc · 02-15-2003, 05:32 PM

I am 100% behind disarming Iraq by force, and I was sorry to see 1,000,000 people protesting in london, as the article at the top of the page say's I feel they are protesting against me...

Iraq will sell weapons to terrorist groups to use against the west, it's just a shame they didn't have a failed attempt to kill the 1,000,000 demonstrators, then maybe they would understand.

dig420 · 02-15-2003, 05:36 PM

yeah, let's kill everyone who opposes killing people for oil. That'll teach em. Traitors.

tony286 · 02-15-2003, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Why would we receive "10x more terrorist attacks" if Iraq supposedly had no stakes in 9/11 or prior terrorist activity?

Because the government will be destablized thats why he wasnt taken out the first time. It will be waring tribes fighting for power. He is a piece of shit and may he die of slow painful stomach cancer but he keeps a unstable place more stable than if he wasnt there.

jimboc · 02-15-2003, 05:38 PM

if you think that this really is about oil you must be really dumb, war will cost the us more that supplying free oil for a year to every resident dick head.

dig420 · 02-15-2003, 05:40 PM

yep I'm a dumb dickhead, I just wanna kill every 1,000,000th person who disagrees with me so that they 'understand'

directfiesta · 02-15-2003, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rooster
the only thing that will shut up some people is radiation

Are you volunteer to see the effects????

jimboc · 02-15-2003, 05:46 PM

I know that people in Iraq will be killed because of war, they are already being tortured and killed by Saddam, gassed, amputated, hanged etc.. and not on a small scale either, 1000's, in fact more people are supposed to have been killed by Saddam than by any war in Iraq.

He needs to go, maybe then the people can be free.

and if we don't act I predict a terrorist group will buy, (maybe 3rd hand) chemical weapons or biological weapons (he has enough to kill everyone on the planet) and sept 11th will look like childs play.

Don't dismiss this, the us / uk government is so sure of this they are willing to destablize an already weak economy by spendijng billions disarming him.

directfiesta · 02-15-2003, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimboc
I am 100% behind disarming Iraq by force, ...

And what is wrong with " disarming Iraq without force??? ( UN troops)

Quote:

Originally posted by jimboc
Iraq will sell weapons to terrorist groups to use against the west, ...

It sounds so old... the "WEST". There is no more such thing as the East and the west... That existed while the USSR existed. That is gone....
Iraq is less likely to sell arms to terrorists than Pakistan, Cachemire, Yemen, Saudia Arabia, Russia ( Thcechen or others), IRAN, and I will not list the ones in Africa... or the Orient ( oups, it slipped: North Korea!!!!)

dig420 · 02-15-2003, 05:55 PM

the economy wasn't weak until Dubya Dumbass made it that way, but that's another argument.

In Zaire they have a dictator who kills his people. In North Korea they have a dictator who kills his people. In China they have a dictator who kills his people, and in Turkey and Uganda and Libya, Cuba, Iran, Sudan -- in fact there are tyrants and genocides all over the world, some of whom we put in power ourselves. North Korea sells more arms to our enemies in a week than Hussein could in a lifetime, seeing as how his country is completely bankrupt and starving and has been for 15-20 years.

Are we going to war with China after this? Are we going to liberate the Congo, nuke the North Koreans??

nope. they don't have any oil.

02-15-2003, 02:18 PM	#1
DavePlays Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: West (by God) Virginia Posts: 1,088	Against America and/or The War? - READ THIS! This is a little long - but I did not want to edit one single word of it........ No matter what your views on President Bush's statement of upcoming war, this, from an English journalist, is very interesting. For those of you not familiar with the UK's Daily Mirror, this is a notoriously left-wing daily that is normally not supportive of the Colonials across the Atlantic. Tony Parsons Daily Mirror September 11, 2002 ONE year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting -- the mass murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty of the human race, September 11 was up there, with Pol Pot's mountain of skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps. An unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely the world could agree on one thing - nobody deserves this fate. Surely there could be consensus: the victims were truly innocent, the perpetrators truly evil. But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's comeuppance. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year. There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country - too loud, too rich, too full of themselves and so much happier than Europeans - but it has become an epidemic. And it seems incredible to me. More than that, it turns my stomach. America is this country's greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language and blood. A little over half a century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? And exactly a year ago, thousands of ordinary men, women and children - not just Americans, but from dozens of countries - were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray them? What touched the heart about those who died in the twin towers and on the planes was that we recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's son and somebody's daughter, husbands and wives, and children, some unborn. And these people brought it on themselves? And their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter? These days you don't have to be some dust-encrusted nut job in Kabul or Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan. The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission. The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September 11. Remember, remember. Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were burned alive. Remember those people leaping to their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers. Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive. Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum. Remember, remember - and realize that America has never retaliated for 9/11 in anything like the way it could have. So a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked without a trial in Camp X-ray? Pass the Kleenex... So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semi-automatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti. AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it didn't is a sign of strength. American voices are already being raised against attacking Iraq - that's what a democracy is for. How many in the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder of 9/11 was an abomination? When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street. America watched all of that - and didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism." A real war. The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of hell," if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like you wouldn't believe. The US is the most militarily powerful nation that ever strode the face of the earth. The campaign in Afghanistan may have been less than perfect and the planned war on Iraq may be misconceived. But don't blame America for not bringing peace and light to these wretched countries. How many democracies are there in the Middle East, or in the Muslim world? You can count them on the fingers of one hand -assuming you haven't had any chopped off for minor shoplifting. I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle. But I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh. Above all, America is hated because it is what every country wants to be - rich, free, strong, open, optimistic. Not ground down by the past, or religion, or some caste system. America is the best friend this country ever had and we should start remembering that. Or do you really think the USA is the root of all evil? Tell it to the loved ones of the men and women who leaped to their death from the burning towers. Tell it to the nursing mothers whose husbands died on one of the hijacked planes, or were ripped apart in a collapsing skyscraper. And tell it to the hundreds of young widows whose husbands worked for the New York Fire Department. To our shame, George Bush gets a worse press than Saddam Hussein. Once we were told that Saddam gassed the Kurds, tortured his own people and set up rape-camps in Kuwait. Now we are told he likes Quality Street. Save me the orange center, oh mighty one! Remember, remember, September 11. One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against America. No, do more than remember. Never forget. __________________ THE BEST CONVERTING TGP If I were only going to submit to one TGP, it would be BOOK-MARK.NET.

02-15-2003, 02:23 PM	#2
Pete Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Mr. Rogers Neighborhood Posts: 6,617	This was posted once already.....next __________________ Evoke Electronics

02-15-2003, 02:24 PM	#3
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	I think a lot of people forget that. Its hard to watch the anti-War demonstrators... Because they are, in part, demonstrating against me. __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

02-15-2003, 02:27 PM	#5
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	I read about half of that. Just one comment: a good chunk of the arguments I've seen against this possible "war" haven't had anything to do with the war or Iraq, they're mostly centered around their hate for Bush or the United States. __________________ PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price! sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

02-15-2003, 02:29 PM	#6
Scott McD Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 67,789	And yet New York streets were filled today... __________________ I Buy My High Quality Traffic Here, You Should Too!

02-15-2003, 02:35 PM	#7
X37375787 Guest Posts: n/a	God I fucking hate how people keep on bringing up 9-11 as an excuse for everything. I am personally sick and fucking tired of hearing about it. It's being put into context every single fucking time. Get over it. There's been millions of innocent killed over the past few decades, and nobody gives a flying fuck about those people. Burning towers, heroic firemen. Sentimentalism ^ 10. Gimme a fucking break.

02-15-2003, 02:39 PM	#8
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	You're right. Let's forget about the Holocaust too. In fact, I don't think the Holocaust ever really happened. It was bull shit American propaganda used to persuade the American (and European) public to cheer on their troops and send them in to take care of Hitler. __________________ PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price! sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

02-15-2003, 03:00 PM	#17
X37375787 Guest Posts: n/a	It doesn't matter if the war in the Middle East if justified or not. It's up to everyone to figure that out by him/herself. We all know it will happen, no matter if we think that it stinks or not.

02-15-2003, 03:01 PM	#18
CDSmith GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	Just saw an investigative report-type program the other night about a US navy pilot who was shot down over Iraq shortly before the Gulf war occured. The pilot was presumed dead because he didn't use his radio for help, and if he had ejected safely he would have certainly called for help. No search and rescue was done because of that. In later years, the pilot's best friend kept digging, until it was discovered that the pilot was possibly, and probably, still alive and being held in Iraq. The investigation resumed, and the secretary of the navy finally listed the pilot as "missing in action" instead of "killed in action"..... and there were reliable reports from Iraqi defectors that indicated the pilot had been captured, and had NOT died in the crash. The reason given as to why this pilot wasn't returned to the USA with all the other prisoners of war?....... It was because the US didn't ASK for him. Fucking Iraqis can suck goat shit through a straw for that, as far as I'm concerned. "Didn't ask for him"... Fuckers........ no one should have to ASK for the return of a POW once a war is over. How many years has it been since then? and.... he's still not home. The Iraqi's say he probably was eaten by wolves. His uniform was found though, when the crash site was finally made accessible to the US military people....... and guess what? The guy's uniform was found, INTACT, no blood, just some even cuts up the sides of the legs where it was obviously CUT OFF HIM. The aircraft was picked clean of technology by an obviously expert team. Talk to me about the fucking Iraqi's and their rights. If you do you're a fucktard. You can research more about this incident of Commander "Spiker" here.... http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Spi...+pilot%2C+Iraq And, as to 9/11.... there were somewhere between 300 and 400 Canadians working in the twin towers that morning, and there were a handful of Canadians on those flights that crashed that morning. Let a few more planes be hijacked by ragheads and crashed into the beloved buildings of Paris, London, Sydney or Berlin and then see how those protesters feel when they're consoling their fucking loved ones over lost family members. This Canadian is behind the US in their efforts to put the smackdown on the bullshit in the middle east. 100%. Thank you. __________________ *Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!* ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!! Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634

02-15-2003, 04:21 PM	#19
sacX Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,998	1.5 million people die a year of malaria, hundreds of thousands from gastroentertitis and other preventable diseases. Then there's those that die from from influenza, H.I.V, Tb and numerous other infections. Why isn't there a war on these? The attack on the WTC was unjustifiable anyway you look at it, but there are equally horrible things happening around the world every year, where MANY more people die, and often children. Do you know what child mortality is like in most of the African continent? I'm sorry if a sentimental article on the WTC doesn't convince me that invading Iraq is a good idea. Iraq and the WTC are not connected in any convincing way. Also I'm sick to death of people concluding that being anti-war = anti-US. I'm just anti a foreign policy that is quick to consider war.

02-15-2003, 04:27 PM	#21
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	Osama wants to kill Hussein as badly as he wants to kill americans, if not worse. you might as well go to war with Czechoslovakia over 9-11, that's how relevant this is.

02-15-2003, 04:33 PM	#22
rooster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,384	sure dig, that is almost as funny as when you said "you ask would Bill Clinton be going to war. My answer is no, he was too smart to get in a battle that doesn't have a winning scenario under any circumstances. He was also smart enough to infiltrate Al-Qaeda and keep them down until your boy Bush got in office and decided that whatever Clinton did, he would do the opposite. " Drugs fuck the mind.

02-15-2003, 04:33 PM	#23
The Craze Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: 192.155.181.3 Posts: 119	See the problem is, there is no direct connection here. FYI, there is no proof yet Saddam has these weapons of mass destruction. Stop watching CNN, start watching C Span. Stop reading crap like that english paper. Bush is America's shame, an insult to democracy and to all the Americans defend. __________________ The Craze I'm just here drinking beer

02-15-2003, 04:37 PM	#25
Jay_StandAhead Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,103	So in order to avoid thousands of People being killed in terrorist attacks, we should kill thousands of People? Anti-War doesn't mean Anti-Americans. Most people in America's best friend countries are against an unjustified war. They aren't against a war if there is something to make war over. Hey, did anyone notice how those Bin Laden tapes always surface in the "right" moments... __________________ Our Programs: StandAhead \| IndieBucks \| BoyCrushCash \| Phoenixxx \| EmoProfits \| BritishBucks \| HunkMoney \| LatinoBucks Make $$$ with Gay! Lowest Minimum Payouts in the Business, Perfect Track Record, Amazing Sites

02-15-2003, 04:38 PM	#26
andi_germany Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 768	9/11 is no justification for war. Sure it is a tradgedy but it has to be seen into perspective. How many people and even children die in the US because every teenager can buy a gun? But if someone challenges the gun laws you cry liberty violation. The very sad thing about 9/11 is that the terrorist succeeded in a way noone could imagine. The US decided to change their way of live. They decided to throw privacy away and let the government spy on their citizens. You gave the CIA FBI and other agencies powers they desired for ages. You started to register and profile your citizens just because they were born elsewhere. Billions of people are against this war, way more then people who want it. You can try to shut us up with propaganda or sentimental journalism but you will not succeed

02-15-2003, 04:40 PM	#27
rooster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,384	the only thing that will shut up some people is radiation

02-15-2003, 04:44 PM	#30
rooster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,384	The point I am making is it will take a mega terror attack before people open their eyes.

02-15-2003, 04:57 PM	#34
the indigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: North America Posts: 2,016	I expect 10x more terrorist attacks on US after Bush attacks IRAQ... That "we must go to war for the security of the United States" is complete bullshiiiitt. Get a clue. Wake up. Riiiiiiing Riiiiiiing.

02-15-2003, 05:06 PM	#36
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	I don't quite understand the comments being made towards Equinox. I don't agree with him at all, and some of his statements made me go "whoa." But the "threats" of sorts are silly, IMO. And I certainly wouldn't stop working with him because his views differ from mine. __________________ PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price! sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

02-15-2003, 05:13 PM	#39
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	Rooster, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not true lol... Al Quaeda was totally infiltrated under the Clinton administration, they couldn't jack off under their burkas without us knowing about it. The incoming administration pulled all resources in the area after they came in. In fact they went out of their way to do everything totally opposite of the way the previous administration did it, including pulling out of the peace process in Palestine and other places. Hence 9-11 took us by surprise. Clinton publically accused Bin Laden of a plot to stage a strike in 2000 after attacks on embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, countries Bush couldn't find on a map. The ugly truth is that Bush just isn't that bright. He was a C student in college, he's resentful of anyone who acts too 'smart' around him within his own administration, and this lack of intelligence and foresight is showing in the results of his administration. Iran harbors Al Quaeda members, we know that. Pakistan harbors AQ training camps, we know that as well. Hussein is a SECULAR DICTATOR - Osama considers him a godless tyrant and an oppressor of Muslims. He hates him. http://www.terrorism.com/documents/c...-request.shtml http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/side2/1054464 there's a ton of actual documented and factual information out there available for you. There's no need to rely on FOX news and Pat Robertson for your world news.

02-15-2003, 05:15 PM	#40
bikinihouse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 843	you guys need real news... http://www.antiwar.com

02-15-2003, 05:32 PM	#42
jimboc Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Internet of course Posts: 1,614	I am 100% behind disarming Iraq by force, and I was sorry to see 1,000,000 people protesting in london, as the article at the top of the page say's I feel they are protesting against me... Iraq will sell weapons to terrorist groups to use against the west, it's just a shame they didn't have a failed attempt to kill the 1,000,000 demonstrators, then maybe they would understand.

02-15-2003, 05:36 PM	#43
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	yeah, let's kill everyone who opposes killing people for oil. That'll teach em. Traitors.

02-15-2003, 05:38 PM	#45
jimboc Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Internet of course Posts: 1,614	if you think that this really is about oil you must be really dumb, war will cost the us more that supplying free oil for a year to every resident dick head.

02-15-2003, 05:40 PM	#46
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	yep I'm a dumb dickhead, I just wanna kill every 1,000,000th person who disagrees with me so that they 'understand'

02-15-2003, 05:46 PM	#48
jimboc Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Internet of course Posts: 1,614	I know that people in Iraq will be killed because of war, they are already being tortured and killed by Saddam, gassed, amputated, hanged etc.. and not on a small scale either, 1000's, in fact more people are supposed to have been killed by Saddam than by any war in Iraq. He needs to go, maybe then the people can be free. and if we don't act I predict a terrorist group will buy, (maybe 3rd hand) chemical weapons or biological weapons (he has enough to kill everyone on the planet) and sept 11th will look like childs play. Don't dismiss this, the us / uk government is so sure of this they are willing to destablize an already weak economy by spendijng billions disarming him.

02-15-2003, 05:55 PM	#50
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	the economy wasn't weak until Dubya Dumbass made it that way, but that's another argument. In Zaire they have a dictator who kills his people. In North Korea they have a dictator who kills his people. In China they have a dictator who kills his people, and in Turkey and Uganda and Libya, Cuba, Iran, Sudan -- in fact there are tyrants and genocides all over the world, some of whom we put in power ourselves. North Korea sells more arms to our enemies in a week than Hussein could in a lifetime, seeing as how his country is completely bankrupt and starving and has been for 15-20 years. Are we going to war with China after this? Are we going to liberate the Congo, nuke the North Koreans?? nope. they don't have any oil.