Obama asking for 5.5 billion to give to insurance companies

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yes Brother Crockett, you are right. I have seen the error of my ways.

I will now hate those "conservative bros". They are all racist and friends with George Bush.

I now see the light and realize that while the ACA might have a couple of small flaws (that will be fixed by MY President...Pres. Obama), it is overall a carefully and well constructed law that is 100% designed out of love for the American people.

Brother Ried and Sister Pelosi have nothing but our best interests at heart.
They want us all to be able to go to the doctor. How in the hell could the people who oppose ObamaCare be so heartless?

Yes Brother Crockett, Pres. Obama is going to straighten out the few little snafu's in ObamaCare and then everything is going to be great!

As Brother Tony said earlier...the NUMBER ONE problem in our country was healthcare costs!
Hell, we didn't even realize that in 2009! We all thought it was the economy and jobs.

Thank GOD for Pres. Obama's wisdom and vision.

And now that I have seen the light, I realize that with ObamaCare in place...nobody will ever have to worry about going to the doctor again and the economy is saved!

I will obey. I have been assimilated. Resistance is futile. Hail to Rachel Maddow.

I don't care if you who you hate.. Just quit calling everyone that has a different opinion from you biased while trying to claim you aren't. You are as biased as they come. I don't give a shit about Pelosi or Reid. They do nothing for me.. I don't even really care about Obama. The simple fact is he was be best option to pick from. Romney was a fucking joke and McCain made himself a laughing stock when he picked Palin as his running mate.

[Robbie]

Yes Brother Crockett, I will obey

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Again, I don't spend my free time fapping off to sites bitching about Obamacare. In fact, Obamacare isn't even in the news these days.

maybe not on MSNBC, but other sources is where this thread started, yet here you are fapping

In fact, I do have a problem paying people that "fought along side of us". They weren't fighting to defend the United States; They were fighting to win back the independence of their own country. How about their own government pays them for that, not us?

They were enlisted in our military, or didn't you know that?

Again, we are spending $5 billion and saving hundreds of billions. Pretty easy decision here. You - and other people who follow politics - read way too much into all of this. This is my point - you can pick apart any budget any President has passed and say "Why did we pay $8 billion to train doctors?".

CBO says they are getting 16 billion in return, hardly hundreds and we have yet to see if that will happen, given all estimates have fallen apart so far

We are going to pay more no matter what. Every year our healthcare costs go up. Like clockwork. At least this way healthcare costs have gone for some, myself included. Eventually the goal is to have everyone on healthcare so costs will stabilize.

Not what we were promised

You seem to see "political trickery" here and I.... Just don't care. The Republican party seems to bitch a lot but doesn't seem interested in coming up with solutions. The are delaying certain aspects of the bill while they fix problems.

Here they are fixing fuck ups before the mid terms for political gain only, it's a temporary delay, it's still going thru, if this was a fix, it would be permanent

I didn't lie about her statement nor did I get it wrong; I was making a funny. "I can see Alaska from my backyard". That's fucking funny. That's not exactly what she said, but she seemed to imply she could "handle Russia" because "Russia is Alaska's neighbor" when the truth is she's never been to Russia.

This is the second time I've answered your question.

And you never answered it truthfully, you believed that's what she said because of the liberal news you watch telling you that!

LOL, well I guess that's the best I'm going to get out of you, she called it in 2008 about Russia and the democrats laughed at her, I wonder how they feel about that now with Russia in Crimea?

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yes Brother Crockett, I will obey

Thanx for not quoting him, so I don't have to read his vilification's of his archenemy, the loathsome Grand Old Party.

Rochard at least makes me laugh!

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by crockett

$265 a month and prior to this I was paying about $86 a week which is almost $5k a year. Meaning Obamacare is saving me almost $2k a year.

I realize you might think some of my responses in this topic are harsh. However you will likely see these topics are the same thing over and over. If you pay attention, you will see that Robbie for instance can't stop telling everyone how biased they are and how unbiased he is. Yet if you watch what he does, you will never once see him pick apart any of his "conservative bros" arguments, he either just blindly accepts what ever they say or just ignores it as long as they go along with the I hate ACA and Obama.. Yet anyone that doesn't agree that ACA is shit or Obama sucks is just biased.

After having enough of my own topics turned into shitfests by these guys, I just troll them now because there is nothing to be gained by trying to have intelligent discussion with them. No one changes their minds and we all get called idiots by Vendillza and biased by Robbie with occasional guest visits by the likes of 12clicks or a random few here or there.. It's really just about amusement at this point as there is no real give or take.

how wonderful that your betters are subsidizing your healthcare.
have enough class to thank us.

[arock10]

I'm gonna mix it up and disagree with Rochard. Healthcare should have zero to do with your job/ employer. All basic healthcare should be provided by the government to everyone for free
Of course nothing is free, just apply a simply healthcare tax which for the vast majority of people would be far less then they pay now for medical care and or health insurance.

Take the profit out of basic healthcare. Remove the association between healthcare and your job. This will reduce costs and allow business to be more competitive internationally as all the other fucking major western countries do this already.

There is a place for government and this is one of them!

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by arock10

I'm gonna mix it up and disagree with Rochard. Healthcare should have zero to do with your job/ employer. All basic healthcare should be provided by the government to everyone for free
Of course nothing is free, just apply a simply healthcare tax which for the vast majority of people would be far less then they pay now for medical care and or health insurance.

Take the profit out of basic healthcare. Remove the association between healthcare and your job. This will reduce costs and allow business to be more competitive internationally as all the other fucking major western countries do this already.

There is a place for government and this is one of them!

you have no understanding of economics

[arock10]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

you have no understanding of economics

So it should be ran by private companies with cross sales to teen girl flash game websites?

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

maybe not on MSNBC, but other sources is where this thread started, yet here you are fapping

I don't read MSNBC. At all. Ever. I pull my news from various sources, not one site.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

They were enlisted in our military, or didn't you know that?

So why are we paying their relatives for having filipinos fight for their own country? Shouldn't they be paying us for freeing their country?

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

CBO says they are getting 16 billion in return, hardly hundreds and we have yet to see if that will happen, given all estimates have fallen apart so far

Estimate are just that - Guesses. And estimates will change.

Perhaps if the Republican party did it's job instead of filing lawsuits and then passing bills to make it easier to file lawsuits, we wouldn't have these problems.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Not what we were promised

"Read my lips - no new taxes". Like it's the first time a politician had lied to us.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Here they are fixing fuck ups before the mid terms for political gain only, it's a temporary delay, it's still going thru, if this was a fix, it would be permanent

Meanwhile the entire Republican platform right now is "file lawsuits".

Odd how they pushed off discussing immigration. Gee, I wonder why.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

And you never answered it truthfully, you believed that's what she said because of the liberal news you watch telling you that!

I have answered truthfully a dozen times. You keep coming back to this without answering why Palin lied about how many people were insured last week?

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I don't read MSNBC. At all. Ever. I pull my news from various sources, not one site.

Yet you continuely bash Fox news and repeat misquotes

So why are we paying their relatives for having filipinos fight for their own country? Shouldn't they be paying us for freeing their country?

They were Enlisted in our military, so you are now against our veterans?

Estimate are just that - Guesses. And estimates will change.

Perhaps if the Republican party did it's job instead of filing lawsuits and then passing bills to make it easier to file lawsuits, we wouldn't have these problems.

Simple question, what is the job of politicians that represent the public

Simple answer to represent their constituents, not to represent the other sides constituents. Why does this SIMPLE thing escape your comprehension?

"Read my lips - no new taxes". Like it's the first time a politician had lied to us.

So now Bush SR is to blame for Obamacare, LMAO
How about, if you like your insurance, you can keep it, period, biggest lie of 2013?

Meanwhile the entire Republican platform right now is "file lawsuits".

When a president by passes the way government is supposed to work, that's the only recourse, YES!

Odd how they pushed off discussing immigration. Gee, I wonder why.

I think the politicians have enough things on their plates to fuck up right now without trying to shift to something else, let them try to fix the fuck ups they have already made

I have answered truthfully a dozen times. You keep coming back to this without answering why Palin lied about how many people were insured last week?

I have no idea why she lied or just had the wrong information, what I want to know is why you misquoted her thinking that's what she really said when it wasn't and now trying so hard to put it off as a joke, the only joke is that you believed it!

[Robbie]

It would seem that the Democrats have the attitude that if you don't agree with them then you are "in the way".

That's not how the govt. works.

If the Pres. has an idea about something...then it's his JOB to go to Congress and the Senate and present his case to them.

If you are a Representative or a Senator it's your JOB to NOT vote party line (which both parties seem to do 99.9% of the time). But to carefully consider the issues on a case by case basis.

In the case of the Affordable Health Care Act...that did not happen.
First off, the President didn't write it and never read it himself. So he failed in his job to come to Congress with a piece of legislation that he truly believed in.

Secondly...Congress themselves never read it. And they passed it on a party vote. The Democrats even "cheated" the vote in the Senate by using procedural law to get past not having enough votes.

So all three branches of govt. FAILED the people of the United States. And we have ended up with a law that makes insurance companies richer, made the govt. bigger (and more powerful).

And the same amount of people are STILL uninsured.
Insurance rates have went up for most people.
The CBO has released reports that don't look good at all.
We are already in tremendous debt and adding to it daily.

I don't give a damn who you are or what "side" you THINK you are on.

Our govt. is ripping us off hand in hand with Big Pharma and Big Medical Corp.

You need to open your fucking sheep eyes and stop being worked like a mark by these con men.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by arock10

So it should be ran by private companies with cross sales to teen girl flash game websites?

with each post it becomes more and more evident as to why you need governmental handouts.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by crockett

$265 a month and prior to this I was paying about $86 a week which is almost $5k a year. Meaning Obamacare is saving me almost $2k a year.

I realize you might think some of my responses in this topic are harsh. However you will likely see these topics are the same thing over and over. If you pay attention, you will see that Robbie for instance can't stop telling everyone how biased they are and how unbiased he is. Yet if you watch what he does, you will never once see him pick apart any of his "conservative bros" arguments, he either just blindly accepts what ever they say or just ignores it as long as they go along with the I hate ACA and Obama.. Yet anyone that doesn't agree that ACA is shit or Obama sucks is just biased.

After having enough of my own topics turned into shitfests by these guys, I just troll them now because there is nothing to be gained by trying to have intelligent discussion with them. No one changes their minds and we all get called idiots by Vendillza and biased by Robbie with occasional guest visits by the likes of 12clicks or a random few here or there.. It's really just about amusement at this point as there is no real give or take.

I do think it is important, if we are going to solve these issues as a nation, that we all be open to the idea that someone else might have an insight we don't. We all have different experiences. For something like Obamacare, the system *should* mean that most people are in a position where healthcare is more affordable.

For many uninsured people, ACA just means they will be fined for not being able to afford healthcare insurance. At least in California, if you own a business which *grosses* over a certain amount, you don't qualify for help, no matter how little you *net*, but you do qualify for a fine. Assuming ACA actually starts doing the fines.

$265 * 12 months = $3,180
$86 * 52 weeks = $4,472
$4,472 - $3,180 = $1,292 savings for you. Not to get all quantitative, but not $2k. Still, if everyone's situation improved by that, it could be a good thing. But do you really, on average, spend more than $8k a year on allowable medical expenses? That is how much you would have to spend, with standard deductibles, before insurance would be a break-even proposition for you.

The reason American healthcare is so expensive is because insurance jacks up the costs. I don't believe insurance is the answer.

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by Mickey_

What's the purpose? Doom and gloom?

I personally find it is better (not to mention more productive) to focus on opportunities than it is to complain about the changing world around you.

______________

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I guess thats 2 more posts that will go completely ignored by those whose best idea for a business plan is to create a time machine and go back 15 years so they stand a chance.

________________________

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

build a time machine go back to 1997

_____________________________

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by adultmobile

I seem to have read this thread hundred times, is it just me?

______________________

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Robbie

It would seem that the Democrats have the attitude that if you don't agree with them then you are "in the way".

That's not how the govt. works.

If the Pres. has an idea about something...then it's his JOB to go to Congress and the Senate and present his case to them.

If you are a Representative or a Senator it's your JOB to NOT vote party line (which both parties seem to do 99.9% of the time). But to carefully consider the issues on a case by case basis.

In the case of the Affordable Health Care Act...that did not happen.
First off, the President didn't write it and never read it himself. So he failed in his job to come to Congress with a piece of legislation that he truly believed in.

Secondly...Congress themselves never read it. And they passed it on a party vote. The Democrats even "cheated" the vote in the Senate by using procedural law to get past not having enough votes.

So all three branches of govt. FAILED the people of the United States. And we have ended up with a law that makes insurance companies richer, made the govt. bigger (and more powerful).

And the same amount of people are STILL uninsured.
Insurance rates have went up for most people.
The CBO has released reports that don't look good at all.
We are already in tremendous debt and adding to it daily.

I don't give a damn who you are or what "side" you THINK you are on.

Our govt. is ripping us off hand in hand with Big Pharma and Big Medical Corp.

You need to open your fucking sheep eyes and stop being worked like a mark by these con men.

Seblius just testified before congress and didn't know how many people that signed up have paid yet and of those that signed up, didn't have insurance before.

People on this forum KNOW how important stats are for your business, to not know your stats is to not know your business.

She is not doing her job

Republicans demanding answers, they are doing their jobs.......

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

So cute watching an insignificant and failed few strut and pound their chests as if it matters.

______________________________

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Serious business people are able to confront the facts and deal with them as they are. You guys are not serious business people. Sitting around day dreaming about putting the genie back in the bottle, is hardly a serious business plan. You're mostly part timers who can't even earn a part time wage, but want to complain about it and blame others every single step of the way... while pining for a time that hasn't existed in over a decade.

____________________________

[Magnetron]

Pretty fucking eerie, isn't it?

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by Far-L

You sit on GFY and wax on and on about this and that and I must admit that just the way you write you come off as an authority. However, 99% of what you say is pure conjecture and your assertions are completely unfounded... and that makes you the blind leading the blind. So while it may puff up your ego to be king of the malcontents, you really aren't offering any practical advice or help at all.

________________________

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

If your life narrative is going to be "things are bad and only getting worse"... then of course, you are going to see nothing but facts that support that.

______________________

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

The thing is, you don't know thats the case at all. There is no hard data to support anything that suggests thats even remotely true. People whining and pining for the "good ole days" doesn't count as fact and data.

____________________

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

the weak die.
apparently, before they die, they post excuses why on chat boards.

____________________

[Magnetron]

Now we are cooking with some gas

Originally Posted by DWB

Time will tell. But I no longer worry about what is happening to others, as I'm too busy focusing on my own business that is growing, not shrinking.

When I worried about "the industry," my business shrank. When I stopped caring about "the industry" and focused 100% on myself, my business stopped shrinking and started to grow again and has been growing every since.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Magnetron

Pretty fucking eerie, isn't it?

What, that you can copy others? Not really...

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

What, that you can copy others? Not really...

It's eerie how this is like the whole Free Porn Tube argument.

Losers who spend all their time bitching and whining and crying like little babies change nothing.

The successful people are the ones who adapt and move on with their lives.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Magnetron

It's eerie how this is like the whole Free Porn Tube argument.

Losers who spend all their time bitching and whining and crying like little babies change nothing.

The successful people are the ones who adapt and move on with their lives.

So ignore the problem? You are an idiot!

[Robbie]

It's a good thing that the Founding Fathers weren't as apathetic as you are suggesting people should be Magnetron.

And it's a good thing that the Republicans didn't just accept slavery and voted to end it under Pres. Lincoln in the 1860's.

It's a good thing that LBJ and the Democrats didn't just turn their heads away from Civil Rights in the 1960's.

You see? Being apathetic is NOT the right thing.


I think that Step One IS to complain when you see the govt. doing wrong.

That's always been the first thing to get change. How can change ever happen if people don't even discuss it?

There is no analogy between tube sites and the govt. making laws.

You can't just "adapt" to the ACA. It's pretty cut and dried. If you are alive in the United States you WILL buy health insurance.

My thoughts are this: WHY is the govt. allowing Big Pharma to charge people in the U.S. 4 and 5 times more for the exact same medication as people pay in other countries?
WHY is the govt. allowing hospitals to charge $50 for a paper cup? And charge people 4 and 5 times more than any other country on Earth for the exact same procedures?

You know...I didn't realize any of that until I personally went into the hospital in 2002.
Then my eyes OPENED as to what was going on.

Use Google...look up "medical tourism".

Open your eyes.

I'm not a loser. I'm a winner. Always have been, and always will be.
Doesn't mean that I'm not gonna discuss things when I see how we are getting ripped off on "healthcare".

I didn't get rich by just blowing money for no reason (well, except on the weekend lol).

And I don't think it's "bitching and whining and crying like little babies" to have these discussions.

If a person or two on GFY reads this and gets pissed about it too and votes accordingly in their next election...then it was not "changing nothing".

And if a million more people discuss this in a million more places and get one or two people each to listen...then real change CAN happen.

In the meantime, I am able to multi-task.
I have the ability to work AND post on GFY at the same time.
I can also walk and chew gum. lol

Instead of copy/pasting a bunch of posts from a "tube thread", why not join the discussion with your thoughts on it?

Do you think that the ACA is a "good" thing?

How about any of these things:

1. Pres. Obama promised that the law would be written with cameras from CSPAN broadcasting it live so the American people could take part. (he lied)

2. Pres. Obama met with Big Pharma before anything else was done and gave them assurances that he would NOT stop them price gouging the American people and would continue the Federal Govt.'s actively stopping American's from getting their prescription drugs from other countries as much as they can. (he told the truth to THEM)

3. The sheer size of the law, and the fact that none of our lawmakers (and probably no person on Earth) has ever read the entire thing.

4. The Pres. saying that on average every American families insurance would go DOWN by $2,500 a year (he lied)

5. The changes to the law that he is making unilaterally with no authority.

I think those are all interesting subjects to debate about what is happening.
If you don't think it's worth discussing, then just go ahead and do whatever it is you are doing in this thread. Doesn't really matter anyway.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I think the politicians have enough things on their plates to fuck up right now without trying to shift to something else, let them try to fix the fuck ups they have already made

Like what? Our Congress hasn't done anything. About anything.

They have the worst approval rating ever.

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

So ignore the problem? You are an idiot!

And you are changing the 'problem' here or in any other forum how?

LOL

You can vote for new congressmen and a new president in a few years.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Magnetron

And you are changing the 'problem' here or in any other forum how?

LOL

You can vote for new congressmen and a new president in a few years.

Go ahead and stick your head in the sand , don't get involved.

I get involved and voice my opinion , if we don't voice our opinion and do nothing, before too long, we won't be able to as demonstrated with the patriot act. People like you that don't do a fucking thing are the ones that vote for things that you very well don't know jack shit about. This is a forum were we are exchanging ideas and opinions. Go Fuck YourSelf if you think that's not worthy of your time!

Or don't you get the title of this forum, Fucking Around?

Again, you are an idiot

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by Robbie

You see? Being apathetic is NOT the right thing.

Seems to work for the pro user uploaded mega tube crowd.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Like what? Our Congress hasn't done anything. About anything.

They have the worst approval rating ever.

Who's fault is that?

If we had a good leader in the white house, like Clinton or Reagan, we would have the two sides working together, But we have a shitty leader. He's the head of his party, he is suppose to be leading both parties.

Reagan worked with Tip O'neal to redo social security.
Clinton worked with Newt Gingrich to overhaul the welfare system

But we have Obama, he blamed the GOP for his failures, just like you do all thru this thread

[Magnetron]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Go ahead and stick your head in the sand , don't get involved.

I get involved and voice my opinion , if we don't voice our opinion and do nothing, before too long, we won't be able to as demonstrated with the patriot act. People like you that don't do a fucking thing are the ones that vote for things that you very well don't know jack shit about. This is a forum were we are exchanging ideas and opinions. Go Fuck YourSelf if you think that's not worthy of your time!

Or don't you get the title of this forum, Fucking Around?

Again, you are an idiot

Oh, I see ..... if I'm not complaining about what you are complaining about, then I'm not doing anything.

Admit it.

You failed to Adapt.

You are a failure in the political arena.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

how wonderful that your betters are subsidizing your healthcare.
have enough class to thank us.

I hope it comes directly from you.

[Magnetron]

Feel free to carry on with your complaining.

Try to enjoy your weekend.

My work here is done.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

I do think it is important, if we are going to solve these issues as a nation, that we all be open to the idea that someone else might have an insight we don't. We all have different experiences. For something like Obamacare, the system *should* mean that most people are in a position where healthcare is more affordable.

For many uninsured people, ACA just means they will be fined for not being able to afford healthcare insurance. At least in California, if you own a business which *grosses* over a certain amount, you don't qualify for help, no matter how little you *net*, but you do qualify for a fine. Assuming ACA actually starts doing the fines.

$265 * 12 months = $3,180
$86 * 52 weeks = $4,472
$4,472 - $3,180 = $1,292 savings for you. Not to get all quantitative, but not $2k. Still, if everyone's situation improved by that, it could be a good thing. But do you really, on average, spend more than $8k a year on allowable medical expenses? That is how much you would have to spend, with standard deductibles, before insurance would be a break-even proposition for you.

The reason American healthcare is so expensive is because insurance jacks up the costs. I don't believe insurance is the answer.

I don't think insurance is the answer either, as I think we should have a single payer system, where you can walk into a hospital or doctors office to get treatment. However it's kinda hard for the govt to mandate that as they would quite simply put every health insurance company in the country out of business.

The govt can't do that.. Just like the govt couldn't come along as say, no more gas powered cars can be sold, everyone has to buy electric. The govt just can't put entire industries out of business like that, so they have to take steps and have a stop gap system as a stepping stone. I think we will eventually end up with a single payer system, but it will take time. They have to give the insurance companies time to change their business models into something else.

As far as the 2k I also had a separate dental policy that raised the cost hence the 2k savings. I forgot to add it in the other post.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Go ahead and stick your head in the sand , don't get involved.

I get involved and voice my opinion , if we don't voice our opinion and do nothing, before too long, we won't be able to as demonstrated with the patriot act. People like you that don't do a fucking thing are the ones that vote for things that you very well don't know jack shit about. This is a forum were we are exchanging ideas and opinions. Go Fuck YourSelf if you think that's not worthy of your time!

Or don't you get the title of this forum, Fucking Around?

Again, you are an idiot

Voicing your opinion on a message board all day while jobless and collecting unemployment isn't really doing something. Doing something would mean calling or writing your congressmen. Perhaps going to the post office and hanging out with the guys handing out pictures of Obama with the Hitler stash or going to rallies with your tea party brosefs and seeing who can misspell the most words on a sign.

That's doing something, be it useful or not, however sitting around all day on a message forum complaining about ACA isn't really doing much..

[kane]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Who's fault is that?

If we had a good leader in the white house, like Clinton or Reagan, we would have the two sides working together, But we have a shitty leader. He's the head of his party, he is suppose to be leading both parties.

Reagan worked with Tip O'neal to redo social security.
Clinton worked with Newt Gingrich to overhaul the welfare system

But we have Obama, he blamed the GOP for his failures, just like you do all thru this thread

If we are being fair, the republicans stated from day 1 that their #1 goal was to make Obama a single term president. Robert Draper actually wrote a book on how top republicans gathered the night of Obama's inauguration to put together a plan to take him down. The plan included opposing all of his nominees and opposing him on every bill. Those first two years he was in office they said no to everything and in many cases refused to vote and even debate the subjects. They even stood up and walked out of the room on him in the middle of a budget meeting because they didn't like the way it was going. They gambled that if they just said no to everything they would win seats back in the mid-term election and it worked. Once their shitty behavior had been rewarded with electoral wins, they had no reason to change it.

I'm not defending the president. I don't think he has done a very good job and I understand that the democrats clearly play a big role in this, but the partisan crap, the low congressional approval and bitter divide that runs through Washington is a very clear two way street.

I imagine we will see more of this in the future no matter who gets in office. If a republican wins in 2016 I would imagine the democrats are going to return the favor.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by crockett

I don't think insurance is the answer either, as I think we should have a single payer system, where you can walk into a hospital or doctors office to get treatment. However it's kinda hard for the govt to mandate that as they would quite simple put every health insurance company in the country out of business.

The govt can't do that.. Just like the govt couldn't come along as say, no more gas powered cars can be sold, everyone has to buy electric. The govt just can't put entire industries out of business like that, so they have to take steps and have a stop gap system as a stepping stone. I think we will eventually end up with a single payer system, but it will take time. They have to give the insurance companies time to change their business models into something else.

As far as the 2k I also had a separate dental policy that raised the cost hence the 2k savings. I forgot to add it in the other post.

If the insurance companies are doing nothing but selling a product which (a) increases healthcare costs and (b) gives some people the luxury of peace of mind, why is it the job of government to prop up an industry that sells an undesirable product? Isn't it more the job of government to either see to it that everyone gets healthcare or stay out of the way and let the market decide and right-price affordability?

If you just dropped dental, that's not really a savings or do you have dental included in the figures you listed? Do you spend more than $8k a year on healthcare, on average, counting both hard years and good ones?

There are countries with universal healthcare where people still buy insurance policies. It is not illegal to sell or buy insurance and some people enjoy the luxury of peace of mind that comes with having insurance. There are countries with universal healthcare where many citizens still choose to get treatment outside the system.

[kane]

Originally Posted by crockett

Voicing your opinion on a message board all day while jobless and collecting unemployment isn't really doing something. Doing something would mean calling or writing your congressmen. Perhaps going to the post office and hanging out with the guys handing out pictures of Obama with the Hitler stash or going to rallies with your tea party brosefs and seeing who can misspell the most words on a sign.

That's doing something, be it useful or not, however sitting around all day on a message forum complaining about ACA isn't really doing much..

It is funny you mention this. Yesterday I went to the post office and there were two women standing out front holding signs with Obama with a Hitler mustache. I talked to them for a minute, but didn't stay long. They were clearly batshit crazy.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Magnetron

Oh, I see ..... if I'm not complaining about what you are complaining about, then I'm not doing anything.

Admit it.

You failed to Adapt.

You are a failure in the political arena.

So you didn't have any ideas or anything of value to add to the discussion?

Just attacking Vendzilla and calling him a "political failure" (whatever that means for a non-politician).

You're just trolling brother. Adding nothing and trying to piss of Vendzilla & make the thread about HIM.
Newsflash: Vendzilla doesn't write stupid laws that screw us over. That would be our Senators and Congressmen in Washington D.C.

And they, of course, are far from being "failures". They are living it up on the backs of the taxpayer.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by kane

It is funny you mention this. Yesterday I went to the post office and there were two women standing out front holding signs with Obama with a Hitler mustache. I talked to them for a minute, but didn't stay long. They were clearly batshit crazy.

Isn't that amazing? People like that are just fucking insane.

And the weird thing is, they actually empower the President with their actions.
What I mean is, even if you disagree with his policies you can't condone that kind of stupidity.

So you find yourself forgetting about the sneaky shit that politicians do and find yourself defending them instead against morons like those 2 women.

It almost gives the politicians a free pass to get away with shit because what they are doing almost looks "good" because of the crazy people acting stupid like those 2 women.

Instead of discussing issues in the arena of ideas, those women give Obama supporters an "out".
All they have to do is just say: "Just look at the insane people who are against Obama Care"

Therefore if you are against ObamaCare, you get put in the same category as those crazy ass women.

Hell, now that I think of it...if I were a politician I'd probably secretly HIRE people like that to walk around with my picture looking like Hitler.

Reverse psychology marketing. lol

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by kane

If we are being fair, the republicans stated from day 1 that their #1 goal was to make Obama a single term president. Robert Draper actually wrote a book on how top republicans gathered the night of Obama's inauguration to put together a plan to take him down. The plan included opposing all of his nominees and opposing him on every bill. Those first two years he was in office they said no to everything and in many cases refused to vote and even debate the subjects. They even stood up and walked out of the room on him in the middle of a budget meeting because they didn't like the way it was going. They gambled that if they just said no to everything they would win seats back in the mid-term election and it worked. Once their shitty behavior had been rewarded with electoral wins, they had no reason to change it.

I'm not defending the president. I don't think he has done a very good job and I understand that the democrats clearly play a big role in this, but the partisan crap, the low congressional approval and bitter divide that runs through Washington is a very clear two way street.

I imagine we will see more of this in the future no matter who gets in office. If a republican wins in 2016 I would imagine the democrats are going to return the favor.

Do you think the democrats don't get together and plan taking down Republican politicians?

That has been going on for a long time

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Magnetron

Oh, I see ..... if I'm not complaining about what you are complaining about, then I'm not doing anything.

Admit it.

You failed to Adapt.

You are a failure in the political arena.

I'm not a politician, therefore I can't fail at something I'm not trying to be

Adapt to what the fuck are you talking about?

This is a discussion and you are a troll.

And I have to ask, are you that afraid of voicing an opinion, or just have no opinion at all? if that's so, why waste our time being a troll in this thread

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by kane

If we are being fair, the republicans stated from day 1 that their #1 goal was to make Obama a single term president. Robert Draper actually wrote a book on how top republicans gathered the night of Obama's inauguration to put together a plan to take him down.

Every time there is an election the loosing side has a similar discussion. That's their job.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by crockett

Voicing your opinion on a message board all day while jobless and collecting unemployment isn't really doing something. Doing something would mean calling or writing your congressmen. Perhaps going to the post office and hanging out with the guys handing out pictures of Obama with the Hitler stash or going to rallies with your tea party brosefs and seeing who can misspell the most words on a sign.

That's doing something, be it useful or not, however sitting around all day on a message forum complaining about ACA isn't really doing much..

LOL. Ask him where he gets his healthcare from.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Do you think the democrats don't get together and plan taking down Republican politicians?

That has been going on for a long time

I'm 100% sure they do. The difference is, at least in my memory, they don't then state it publicly like McConnell did.

I was just trying to add some perspective. The current issues with congress run far deeper than just Obama.

Also, in the past, as you pointed out above, some presidents have been able to bring congress together and work with the other side. That wasn't going to happen here. The republicans were pretty much hell bent on opposing him every step of the way no matter what it was.