Obama asking for 5.5 billion to give to insurance companies

[venus]

actually it was the republicans fault, they cried and bitched like crazy about Obama's first idea, to let people join a government healthcare plan, saying it would kill insurance companies, and the government would be in charge of saying what care you could get or not...so Obama got with insurance companies and they came up with this. If the republicians had helped instead of trying to make Obama look bad and make him miserable, things could have worked out better...but in the end, we got this mess.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Don't blame the republicans, it was passed without their consent, but nice try, I mean when you fuck up something, always blame someone that had nothing to do with it!

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by venus

actually it was the republicans fault, they cried and bitched like crazy about Obama's first idea, to let people join a government healthcare plan, saying it would kill insurance companies, and the government would be in charge of saying what care you could get or not...so Obama got with insurance companies and they came up with this. If the republicians had helped instead of trying to make Obama look bad and make him miserable, things could have worked out better...but in the end, we got this mess.

Where did you get that idea?

When Pres. Obama took office he had control of the Senate and House.

If you recall...NOBODY even knew WHAT was in the healthcare bill (remember Pelosi: "We can read it after we pass it") His "first idea"? He never told anyone what it was. Nobody knew.

So NO, there was no way that the Republicans (who were a minority in both houses) were able to complain about Obama's ideas on healthcare. They had no idea what his idea was.
And even if they somehow had telepathy and figured it out...Obama didn't give a shit. He had total control. Remember? He didn't even allow the Republicans to sit in on the process at all.
THAT is what the Republicans were screaming about.

What you just typed is completely false.

And as I said in my earlier post...the FIRST thing Pres. Obama did was meet with Big Pharma and cut a deal with them to allow them to keep their prices artificially high.

The SECOND thing he did was meet with Big Insurance and reassure them that they would also be in the mix.

Republicans "crying" had NOTHING to do with ObamaCare. Absolutely nothing.

This is all Pres. Obama, Sen. Reid, and Congresswoman Pelosi.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by JoshGirls Josh

the main divide in the healthcare debate is what the governments role should be in the system. one side wants a capitalist system, the other wants the government providing medicare-for-all. Obamacare is a frankensteinien hybrid that brings out the worst of both ideas. when the treasury can no longer sell its debt, & the system is bankrupt, then hard decisions will be made. but no sooner.

Respectfully, while I agree that Obamacare is an unfortunate Frankenstein hybrid combining the worst of both ideas, I do not think most Americans want either a capitalist system or "the government providing medicare-for-all". Most Americans just want a fair affordable price and access when they and others need it.

I find it disappointing that the kneejerk response of so many is that anyone who doesn't like ACA must be an extreme right-winger who hates the poor. Here is a statistic for you from the White House's own papers: 25% of small business owners are uninsured. And likely to stay that way. Most people who post on GFY probably qualify as small business owners. If your *gross* income is any amount where you wouldn't just quit, you do not qualify for ACA help in California, no matter how small your *net* income is. So the ACA solution is to fine small business owners for being too poor to afford insurance. Medium-sized businesses probably get hit the hardest by ACA, but large businesses get exemptions.

Insurance is almost always more expensive than healthcare. It has to be or the insurance companies would not be so massively profitable.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by crockett

I have nothing against modifying ACA to make it better or to create something better and scrap it. However the Republicans want to do neither, they just want to bitch and moan but never offer any solutions.

What is the Republican's solution besides "bootstraps" and give more money to defense contractors & big oil? I'm not going to argue if ACA is good or bad, it has both good and bad points. However until the right decides to start being part of a solution then they can simply pound sand as I mentioned.

As long as the right fails to act as a partner in efforts to move forward with health care or insurance for everyone then ACA is what we have and that's what we get. The left can't do it all by themselves nor can they attempt to make ACA better due to the right having control of the house.

That means ACA can't be made better due to the right only wanting to destroy it. You really think if John Boner came forward with a plan to improve ACA and turn it into a single payer system or universal health care that Obama and the Democrats would ignore him?

The problem isn't the left or Obama.. The problem is the right has only one option and that is destroying ACA and having no health care except the same old broken system we had before.

If the Obama administration had wanted to put through single payer or universal healthcare, they would have done it. Obama is one of the most capable people who ever lived and he had a Democratic congress for a lot of his administration.

Romney promised the same thing as Obamacare during the election. And he had the resume of having implemented the same thing with Romneycare in Mass. So the idea that the Republicans are somehow the other side on this is inaccurate.

I bet a lot of people wish there were some orange crybaby they could fictitiously blame everything they do on.

[Robbie]

Well said Amelia G.

I spent most of my life being able to afford to go to the doctor, pay for any prescriptions, and even hospital visits out of pocket.

But starting in the late 1980's forward...the cost of going to the doctor, medication, and the hospital suddenly jumped so high that it's impossible to pay out of pocket anymore.

The govt. needs to STOP the price gouging from Big Pharma and the Big Corporations who run the hospitals.

Bring prices back to reality and most of us can pay our own damn way. Just like our great-grandparents, grandparents, parents, and old fucks like me always did before.

I don't want any kind of health insurance other than "catastrophic" health insurance. That's the only kind that anyone should ever need...but with all this price gouging it's impossible.

[venus]

you was not alive during that mess or what?
not talking about the healthcare bill, before that, Obama's first proposal....the republicans were going to the dems town hall meetings and starting fights, shooting at democratic offices...all kinds of stupid stuff....one guy got his finger bit off at a protest rally
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_276235.html

don't repeat what everyone else says, pay attention to what happens around you, both sides of a debate, otherwise your just sheeple.

Originally Posted by Robbie

Where did you get that idea?

When Pres. Obama took office he had control of the Senate and House.

If you recall...NOBODY even knew WHAT was in the healthcare bill (remember Pelosi: "We can read it after we pass it") His "first idea"? He never told anyone what it was. Nobody knew.

So NO, there was no way that the Republicans (who were a minority in both houses) were able to complain about Obama's ideas on healthcare. They had no idea what his idea was.
And even if they somehow had telepathy and figured it out...Obama didn't give a shit. He had total control. Remember? He didn't even allow the Republicans to sit in on the process at all.
THAT is what the Republicans were screaming about.

What you just typed is completely false.

And as I said in my earlier post...the FIRST thing Pres. Obama did was meet with Big Pharma and cut a deal with them to allow them to keep their prices artificially high.

The SECOND thing he did was meet with Big Insurance and reassure them that they would also be in the mix.

Republicans "crying" had NOTHING to do with ObamaCare. Absolutely nothing.

This is all Pres. Obama, Sen. Reid, and Congresswoman Pelosi.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by venus

you was not alive during that mess or what?
not talking about the healthcare bill, before that, Obama's first proposal....the republicans were going to the dems town hall meetings and starting fights, shooting at democratic offices...all kinds of stupid stuff....one guy got his finger bit off at a protest rally
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_276235.html

don't repeat what everyone else says, pay attention to what happens around you, both sides of a debate, otherwise your just sheeple.

So you read an article where some unnamed crazy person not in office bit off some unnamed hypocrite (also not in office)'s finger? Sounds legit. This has what to do with Obama being the leader of the free world?

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Well said Amelia G.

I spent most of my life being able to afford to go to the doctor, pay for any prescriptions, and even hospital visits out of pocket.

But starting in the late 1980's forward...the cost of going to the doctor, medication, and the hospital suddenly jumped so high that it's impossible to pay out of pocket anymore.

The govt. needs to STOP the price gouging from Big Pharma and the Big Corporations who run the hospitals.

Bring prices back to reality and most of us can pay our own damn way. Just like our great-grandparents, grandparents, parents, and old fucks like me always did before.

I don't want any kind of health insurance other than "catastrophic" health insurance. That's the only kind that anyone should ever need...but with all this price gouging it's impossible.

Maybe most 20- and 30-somethings have just been gouged for their whole lives so they have no concept that there really is another way, another price level which makes sense?

[Vendzilla]

It's sad that instead of having any real debate about the ACA, it ended up being the Republicans against the Democrats. People can blame the Republicans for a bad ACA roll out? They didn't vote for it and had nothing to do with it, period.
Instead of a real debate, we got "We will see what's in it after we vote on it"
Proof that the Democratic party that had control of the House and the Senate pushed it thru without reading it? Then a Democratic President signed it and pushed it for several years lying saying "if you like your insurance, you can keep it"

Now the President wants to give 5.5 billion to the insurance companies

This is how he fixes things, like giving the banks over a trillion dollars , the fed is printing up 85 billion a month for them, they are still not giving out much in loans because of the lower rates, they won't make much money off loans.

At my age, I'm glad I'm healthy and I can use the VA which makes me exempt from the ACA. The service I have received from the VA has been the best. It's proof that something better can be had in this country, because the VA use to be shit. They even put out a movie because of it being so bad. Now it rocks. Which is something Veterans deserve, they earned it. Tomorrow night, I'm joining the VFW because I found out I qualify because of a medal I earned. Local post looks good for my wedding reception next year.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by venus

you was not alive during that mess or what?
not talking about the healthcare bill, before that, Obama's first proposal....the republicans were going to the dems town hall meetings and starting fights, shooting at democratic offices...all kinds of stupid stuff....one guy got his finger bit off at a protest rally
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_276235.html

don't repeat what everyone else says, pay attention to what happens around you, both sides of a debate, otherwise your just sheeple.

I just registered as a libertarian, Robbie is a libertarian. As in NOT a republican

Everyone that thinks Republicans are responsible for it being bad? Kinda stupid wouldn't you agree?

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

from today:



Still Obamacare should be sent to the junkyard... just a a shiny new car of which the motor, transmission, brakes, etc ... has been stripped.

This today

If you listen to the President, and other supporters of Obamacare, you might get the impression that the reason why tens of millions of Americans go without health insurance is because these people have pre-existing conditions, and health insurers are too mean to cover them. The truth is quite different. Less than a million Americans lack health insurance because of a pre-existing condition. And it turns out that a good number of Americans are uninsured not because they are sick, but because they are convicted criminals.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...rtner=yahootix

[crockett]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

If the Obama administration had wanted to put through single payer or universal healthcare, they would have done it. Obama is one of the most capable people who ever lived and he had a Democratic congress for a lot of his administration.

Romney promised the same thing as Obamacare during the election. And he had the resume of having implemented the same thing with Romneycare in Mass. So the idea that the Republicans are somehow the other side on this is inaccurate.

I bet a lot of people wish there were some orange crybaby they could fictitiously blame everything they do on.

He had a Democratic congress for 2 years.. I realize in this world of fast food, TV on demand and 60 second rice that we all assume things happen over night. However it really doesn't.

Bush had a Republican congress for 6 years yet he failed to do all those lovely things he promised to do, like oh umm Healthcare reform.. fixing illegal immigration, pollution..ect..ect

"There are 43 million uninsured Americans – 4 million more than when the current administration took office. George W. Bush will reverse this trend by making health insurance affordable for hard-working, low-income families."

Yea a Bush Cheney campaign promise..

George W. Bush "will also ensure that the federal government, which is the country’s largest polluter, complies with all environmental laws."

More Bush promises that didn't happen even though he had a Republican congress for 6 years

George W. Bush "will also ensure that the federal government, which is the country’s largest polluter, complies with all environmental laws."

umm yea he didn't do that either...

The list can go on and on.. Yes it's correct Obama didn't create a perfect Health Care system, but at least he did something and now everyone can get health care insurance regardless of previous conditions.

Hey maybe if Bush Jr, had followed through with his promise of affordable health care coverage then we wouldn't have ACA. I mean it's not like he had 6 years of total Republican control to do it with.. vs Obama getting it done in 2 years. That really makes ACA the Republicans fault, because they failed to pass a affordable healthcare plan in the 8 years prior to Obama taking office..

See we can blame either party all day long, but the simple fact is Democrats did act and did get something started. It might not be perfect but it's a starting point. Meanwhile Republicans promised to do the same job and failed and now that the Dem's have done it, the Republicans have done nothing to help the process but only try to make it fail.

If Republicans stopped walking around with their heads up their ass and started working with the Democrats on making ACA better then we would have a working system. However they have not done that, all they do is block everything and blame Obama for the grass being green and the sky blue.

[crockett]

btw.. I'd like to ask since the right and it's followers seem to do nothing but complain about what is wrong with ACA..

What is stopping any Republican congressmen from making ACA better? They are in office are they not? They are paid to serve the people of this country as lawmakers are they not?

Then why is it both parties seem to agree that everyone needs healthcare coverage (at least around election time), but now that we have a semi working system in place one party wants to kill it?

What is stopping the GOP from going point by point and addressing each problem they complain about and coming up with a working solution on how to fix it?

Yea you will never see that in a million years because they aren't working for the people of this country but for their lobbyists whom want ACA killed.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Ross, NOTHING is "Free". Somebody paid for it.

That's what I was pointing out to you. Don't let the govt. making you dependent on them take away your own spirit and pride in yourself.

I personally do not WANT anybody else paying my way. I wouldn't brag about it on a message board either.

I pay my own way. Always have, and I hope to God that I always will.

says the guy who banks from his wife fucking other guys on camera.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

says the guy who banks from his wife fucking other guys on camera.

Seriously, you are going to judge someones sex life on this forum?

I've met Robbie and his wife, they are fun people and happy. What else could you want in life?

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Seriously, you are going to judge someones sex life on this forum?

I've met Robbie and his wife, they are fun people and happy. What else could you want in life?

if he wants to talk about spirit and pride and 'paying his own way' and put down ross for being thankful that his medical costs are covered in canada, i think he needs to look at how he makes his money and who really makes it. i'd also be curious to know how he is going to afford some kind of bipass/blocked artery surgery in the future all on his own. i am not trying to judge, i have no problem with what they do but last time i checked it wasn't robbies tits and ass all over claudia-marie.com.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

if he wants to talk about spirit and pride and 'paying his own way' and put down ross for being thankful that his medical costs are covered in canada, i think he needs to look at how he makes his money and who really makes it. i'd also be curious to know how he is going to afford some kind of bipass/blocked artery surgery in the future all on his own. i am not trying to judge, i have no problem with what they do but last time i checked it wasn't robbies tits and ass all over claudia-marie.com.

And who's tit's are you making your living off of?

He has a successful business, and if I remember right, it's not just from Claudia.

He has always been paying health insurance as I can tell from his posts, he is just pissed because the cost is going up because of Obamacare, wouldn't you be?

Any ways, I'll check on this later, business meeting in Santa Ana. Hour long drive

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

says the guy who banks from his wife fucking other guys on camera.

Dude, I didn't even meet my wife until summer of 2000. I had already made my first million in this biz long before that.

I didn't even START her website until April of 2007.

I don't have to justify what I have done in this business and the life I've been able to provide for my family.

And I don't understand why you are trying to make this personal towards me?

Are you saying that health care costs SHOULD be so high that nobody can pay them?
And when I spoke of the way I always paid my way before...from 1978 (when I turned 17) up until the beginning of 1997 I was a touring musician.
If I made $500 for the week it felt like being rich.

My son (with my first wife) had his appendix burst in 1985. Had to be rushed to the hospital. I paid for it myself (we didn't have or need any health insurance). The bill was $3,800.

Claudia Marie had her appendix go bad in 2010. We had health insurance. The bill was close to $40,000 for the exact same procedure (appendectomy).

THAT is what I'm talking about. You want to get personal? Well, there is what I saw with my own two eyes.

I'd thank you to keep this a discussion on health care and don't concern yourself with my personal life. When you do that, you leave the arena of ideas and become an asshole for no reason.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

says the guy who banks from his wife fucking other guys on camera.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

If you can't win a debate on the merit of your argument, then admit you can't win. There is no need to get personal and dragging people's personal business and insulting their wife into threads because you can't remain civil in your discourse. That's a low blow at Robbie's and his wife and you damn well know it.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Robbie

My son (with my first wife) had his appendix burst in 1985. Had to be rushed to the hospital. I paid for it myself (we didn't have or need any health insurance). The bill was $3,800.

Claudia Marie had her appendix go bad in 2010. We had health insurance. The bill was close to $40,000 for the exact same procedure (appendectomy).

THAT is what I'm talking about.

That's fucked up and that is a big part of the problem.

Using the CPI inflation index (http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc....985&year2=2010)

That $3,800 would have equalled $7,700.86.

Who the real ''villain'' is I dunno but doing less than some sort of universal tax supported healthcare will be a failure. A third party payer like an insurer is an ''insulator'' of price sensitivity to the patient.

With the insured paying more of the premiums that his employer used to this effect has lessened some.

With taxpayer supported healthcare the working person is taxed and there is a ceiling to what tax rate is politically tolerable. So, there is some indirect form of price control by political consequence.

As things are right now there are no real price controls in place with the exception of federally funded medical services reimbursements.

Healthcare is our #1 growth industry and the prices we are paying for healthcare services are supporting it's inflated job growth.

Obviously, an appendectomy is old technology so that is not where the real costs are.

[Robbie]

Barry, my opinion is that the solution to this would be to have the govt. break it's ties with Big Pharma and Big Medical Corp. lobbyists.

Of course that's not gonna happen anytime soon because the public is being led to believe that it's a "fight" between Republicans and Democrats.

When a hospital can charge you $50 for a paper dixie cup and get away with it legally...something is fucked up.

I don't think that most people really want the govt. to "give" them "free" healthcare. Most folks would just like to be able to pay for it themselves.

But the medical and insurance corporations have found a way to get "recurring billing" through health insurance.

Now, instead of a person getting sick and going to the doctor and paying for it (like people did throughout history)...people pay EVERY MONTH whether they are sick or not.

The whole thing is a scam from top to bottom. And the Federal Govt. has been hand in hand with it since the Reagan Administration going forward.

It's outrageous what the hospitals charge people. And they aren't even required to show their prices to the public!
And if you go to the hospital...you have to request a detailed bill.

That's why "Medical Tourism" is such a big business now.
People who are able to schedule a surgery are flying to other countries first class, recovering in 4 star hotels, and still paying 1/4th of the cost for the exact same procedure as they would in the U.S.

It's a complete ripoff of the American people.

Do I blame Big Pharma and Big Medical Corp's?
Not really.

They are in it to make money.

I blame the Federal Govt. and the crooks sitting in Congress and the Senate. THEY are the ones who have facilitated all of this by selling their votes to the highest bidder.

Yet, it seems like they have figured out how to turn us against ourselves while they laugh all the way to the bank.

"Republicans" VS "Democrats"?
Nope.

That's like saying that "The Rock" and John Cena really had a "fight" when they had their wrestling match at Wrestlemania.

Believe me...when it comes to govt. power and influence, the Democrats and Republicans put on a great show for the camera. And afterwards they all have a drink and laugh and plan the next day's "show".
Just like the WWE.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Dude, I didn't even meet my wife until summer of 2000. I had already made my first million in this biz long before that.

I didn't even START her website until April of 2007.

I don't have to justify what I have done in this business and the life I've been able to provide for my family.

And I don't understand why you are trying to make this personal towards me?

Are you saying that health care costs SHOULD be so high that nobody can pay them?
And when I spoke of the way I always paid my way before...from 1978 (when I turned 17) up until the beginning of 1997 I was a touring musician.
If I made $500 for the week it felt like being rich.

My son (with my first wife) had his appendix burst in 1985. Had to be rushed to the hospital. I paid for it myself (we didn't have or need any health insurance). The bill was $3,800.

Claudia Marie had her appendix go bad in 2010. We had health insurance. The bill was close to $40,000 for the exact same procedure (appendectomy).

THAT is what I'm talking about. You want to get personal? Well, there is what I saw with my own two eyes.

I'd thank you to keep this a discussion on health care and don't concern yourself with my personal life. When you do that, you leave the arena of ideas and become an asshole for no reason.

i agree with everything you are saying here and apologize for my comment. you just kinda pissed me off by saying anyone who lives in a country with taxes based health care has no pride or spirit, should be ashamed and is relying on the government to take care of them. in reality health care insurance isn't much different as it only works if a small % use it while the rest just pay into it (except you pay much more). i guess its like having a corporation taking care of you. either way, i think its an inaccurate and unnecessary much like my comment.

[deltav]

Pretty much what Barry said.

We can bitch all we want about the ACA, Obama, whatever, but the key is - healthcare in this country is a HUGE growth industry with huge profits, yet in a way we expect affordable healthcare as a human right. Those two conditions can't co-exist, they are by nature opposed.

Currently there aren't adequate limitations on how much money the insurance industry can make, consequently health care costs are too high and getting worse. Every link in the chain wants more money and so in each step the costs multiply until they get shit on the end customer, i.e. patient. Only when/if the entire industry can be transformed into something serving the greater good rather than billions in profits will this mess get fixed. Ain't happening anytime soon unfortunately, especially because this fundamental paradox gets obscured by ideology, egos, and bickering (and the $$$$ flowing from the industry to our political representatives).

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

i agree with everything you are saying here and apologize for my comment. you just kinda pissed me off by saying anyone who lives in a country with taxes based health care has no pride or spirit, should be ashamed and is relying on the government to take care of them. in reality health care insurance isn't much different as it only works if a small % use it while the rest just pay into it (except you pay much more). i guess its like having a corporation taking care of you. either way, i think its an inaccurate and unnecessary much like my comment.

Apology accepted. Sometimes we all get a little passionate about what we are discussing.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

I do not think most Americans want either a capitalist system or "the government providing medicare-for-all". Most Americans just want a fair affordable price and access when they and others need it.

Insurance is almost always more expensive than healthcare. It has to be or the insurance companies would not be so massively profitable.

yes. mostly i was describing the 2 idealogies, not really what the public in general wants. The public only speaks on election day. lobbyists & their cash speak on the other 364 days.

but your second comment is why, although i lean republican on many issues, i believe that single payer is the only solution to healthcare delivery. too complicated to explain cept to say that the feds are already the healthcare provider of last resort (as proven by the bailout in the OPs thread) & there is no point to insurance companies other than to inflate costs.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

says the guy who banks from his wife fucking other guys on camera.

really bad and pointless comment

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by crockett

btw.. I'd like to ask since the right and it's followers seem to do nothing but complain about what is wrong with ACA..

What is stopping any Republican congressmen from making ACA better? They are in office are they not? They are paid to serve the people of this country as lawmakers are they not?

Then why is it both parties seem to agree that everyone needs healthcare coverage (at least around election time), but now that we have a semi working system in place one party wants to kill it?

What is stopping the GOP from going point by point and addressing each problem they complain about and coming up with a working solution on how to fix it?

Yea you will never see that in a million years because they aren't working for the people of this country but for their lobbyists whom want ACA killed.

Okay, I just read through every post in this thread again to see if maybe you are responding to something I missed. Not one single person in here is defending Republicans. Why do you keep bringing up the Republicans?

If the best thing you can say about the Democrats is that they are not Republicans, then you are abdicating responsibility for the issues. If Bush didn't do certain things he could have with a Republican congress, it was because he did not want to. If Obama didn't do certain things he could have with a Democrat congress, it was because he did not want to.

If I have a toothache and I punch myself in the face repeatedly, I'm doing something. But that something would not be helping.

You seriously seriously think that, in a down economy, fining poor people for being too poor to buy insurance from wealthy corporations is helping????

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by JoshGirls Josh

there is no point to insurance companies other than to inflate costs.

Quoted for truth.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Barry, my opinion is that the solution to this would be to have the govt. break it's ties with Big Pharma and Big Medical Corp. lobbyists.

Of course that's not gonna happen anytime soon because the public is being led to believe that it's a "fight" between Republicans and Democrats.

When a hospital can charge you $50 for a paper dixie cup and get away with it legally...something is fucked up.

I don't think that most people really want the govt. to "give" them "free" healthcare. Most folks would just like to be able to pay for it themselves.

But the medical and insurance corporations have found a way to get "recurring billing" through health insurance.

Now, instead of a person getting sick and going to the doctor and paying for it (like people did throughout history)...people pay EVERY MONTH whether they are sick or not.

The whole thing is a scam from top to bottom. And the Federal Govt. has been hand in hand with it since the Reagan Administration going forward.

It's outrageous what the hospitals charge people. And they aren't even required to show their prices to the public!
And if you go to the hospital...you have to request a detailed bill.

That's why "Medical Tourism" is such a big business now.
People who are able to schedule a surgery are flying to other countries first class, recovering in 4 star hotels, and still paying 1/4th of the cost for the exact same procedure as they would in the U.S.

It's a complete ripoff of the American people.

Do I blame Big Pharma and Big Medical Corp's?
Not really.

They are in it to make money.

I blame the Federal Govt. and the crooks sitting in Congress and the Senate. THEY are the ones who have facilitated all of this by selling their votes to the highest bidder.

Yet, it seems like they have figured out how to turn us against ourselves while they laugh all the way to the bank.

"Republicans" VS "Democrats"?
Nope.

That's like saying that "The Rock" and John Cena really had a "fight" when they had their wrestling match at Wrestlemania.

Believe me...when it comes to govt. power and influence, the Democrats and Republicans put on a great show for the camera. And afterwards they all have a drink and laugh and plan the next day's "show".
Just like the WWE.

All super true and it surprises me that anyone is so attached to their party identity that discussing the issues is too painful to bear. If you go to Thailand for surgery, you can have your own dedicated nurses 24/7 and your loved ones can be by your side for the whole recovery process, not minimized to visiting hours like a hospital is a prison.

I'd add to what Robbie say that the people who are most to blame are the ones who buy into the fantasy that insurance companies are like charities there to help when someone gets sick. The insurance companies want you to think they are the good guys and that anyone not making them rich is greedy.

The insurance companies just take your premiums and use them to play the market. When you get sick, there are adjustors whose job it is to disallow as much as possible. When caps are put on their profit margin, they just pump up their gross and their COGS and make healthcare still more expensive.

I prefer to take care of myself and not have to argue with some adjustor about whether I really needed that many medical appointments or whatever. Failing that, I liked having a clinic on campus when I was in college where I could just walk in when I needed something.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Romney promised the same thing as Obamacare during the election. And he had the resume of having implemented the same thing with Romneycare in Mass. So the idea that the Republicans are somehow the other side on this is inaccurate.

Then why is the Republican party taking this issue to the Supreme Court when it's a Republican idea put in place in a Republican state by a Republican governor?

It Mitt won and put this in place the Republican party would have had a hard on for years.

[Rochard]

[QUOTE=Robbie;20011337]
My son (with my first wife) had his appendix burst in 1985. Had to be rushed to the hospital. I paid for it myself (we didn't have or need any health insurance). The bill was $3,800.

Claudia Marie had her appendix go bad in 2010. We had health insurance. The bill was close to $40,000 for the exact same procedure (appendectomy).
/QUOTE]

That is seriously fucked up.

[CarlosTheGaucho]

Robbie is spot on, what the debate comes down to is again whether running a healthcare system as a business can ever work for its clients, meaning people, citizens, tax payers (in the better case) name it any way you want.

What I can see locally, is that when politics get in bed with big corps in order to showcase their corruption skills and pass those "stimulating" laws it has terrible consequences, the devastating effect usually lasts generations.

Once the corruption plague spreads out and there's a critical amount of money at stake, or enough people's living depending on it, one practically can't reinstate any sort of common sense or balance.

Unless of course one would want to overthrow the government, force new laws and replace just about anyone in the chain of command (but you will hardly get enough credible people for that).

Another champion in this, besides the allmighty healthcare crooks is nobody else than Wall Street, who not only repeatedly bankrupted its clients, they even bankrupted itself, only to create yet another artificial "financial instruments" market from tax payer's money.

[MK Ultra]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Then why is the Republican party taking this issue to the Supreme Court when it's a Republican idea put in place in a Republican state by a Republican governor?

keyword here is "state"


If you don't like a state government you can move out of that state,
it's called "voting with your feet" and it's how this country is supposed to work, fleeing state residents trigger changes in policy.

No such escape from the aca, the options are leave the country, pay, or die

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Then why is the Republican party taking this issue to the Supreme Court when it's a Republican idea put in place in a Republican state by a Republican governor?

It Mitt won and put this in place the Republican party would have had a hard on for years.

The goal for both Dem and Rep appears to be to win and not to actually help people. If Romney won, more of big pharma and insurance donations would presumably have gone to elephants than donkeys, but how would this have impacted the citizens differently?

What do you think the explanation is? I'm open to other logical interpretations.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

The goal for both Dem and Rep appears to be to win and not to actually help people. If Romney won, more of big pharma and insurance donations would presumably have gone to elephants than donkeys, but how would this have impacted the citizens differently?

What do you think the explanation is? I'm open to other logical interpretations.

Get right down too it, neither side has a clear answer as to what will truly work for the citizens, only what will work for them.

We were promised healthcare reform, when there was nothing wrong with healthcare, it was making it affordable. Making people that already pay for insurance pay more so people that don't have it can get subsidized is clearly not going to work as now people that are working and earning are getting penalized.

ACA just gives a big paycheck to the Insurance companies.

So many lies were made to get this passed and no one would believe that they were lies, they just wanted to believe in CHANGE. Nope, more of the same!!!

I don't know what would have happened if Romney would have won with the ACA, but I think we would have done better with our economy, which would have put more people to work, which in turn would have had more people getting medical insurance thru their employer. Accounting for the workforce getting smaller and smaller under Obama

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Get right down too it, neither side has a clear answer as to what will truly work for the citizens, only what will work for them.

We were promised healthcare reform, when there was nothing wrong with healthcare, it was making it affordable. Making people that already pay for insurance pay more so people that don't have it can get subsidized is clearly not going to work as now people that are working and earning are getting penalized.

ACA just gives a big paycheck to the Insurance companies.

So many lies were made to get this passed and no one would believe that they were lies, they just wanted to believe in CHANGE. Nope, more of the same!!!

I don't know what would have happened if Romney would have won with the ACA, but I think we would have done better with our economy, which would have put more people to work, which in turn would have had more people getting medical insurance thru their employer. Accounting for the workforce getting smaller and smaller under Obama

Romney would not have been particularly different, except that different people would either be cheering or booing.

I agree that ACA is just corporate welfare for the wealthy insurance companies. It does seem to penalize people with corporate jobs.

Importantly:

ACA does not actually help most uninsured people get more affordable healthcare.

ACA fines people for being poor.

ACA gives megacorps competitive advantage versus small and medium-sized businesses by exempting large companies, while socking it to small and medium-sized ones.

ACA raises the cost of living for almost everyone, at a time when the economy has so little opportunity and corporate welfare for oil and such has somehow resulted in a higher cost for everything from gas to food.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

The goal for both Dem and Rep appears to be to win and not to actually help people.

Exactly. The goal is to beat the other side, and if you can't do that, make the other side look bad. And when that fails, file lawsuits.

Romenycare worked fine for the Republicans when they put it in place, and no one filed lawsuits.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

..... when there was nothing wrong with healthcare....

Nothing wrong with healthcare? Really?

Healthcare costs are going up faster then cost of living raises - People are making less every year because their healthcare costs up faster than their salary does. This of course doesn't mentioned millions of people - such as my wife - with pre-exisiting conditions...

Seriously, where do you get this from?

[deltav]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

We were promised healthcare reform, when there was nothing wrong with healthcare, it was making it affordable. Making people that already pay for insurance pay more so people that don't have it can get subsidized is clearly not going to work as now people that are working and earning are getting penalized.

ACA just gives a big paycheck to the Insurance companies.

So many lies were made to get this passed and no one would believe that they were lies, they just wanted to believe in CHANGE. Nope, more of the same!!!

I don't know what would have happened if Romney would have won with the ACA, but I think we would have done better with our economy, which would have put more people to work, which in turn would have had more people getting medical insurance thru their employer. Accounting for the workforce getting smaller and smaller under Obama

This is a brain flailing around with the issues without really grasping anything, and then spouting out some half-baked phrases and vague opinions heard on the radio or something. I swear you could almost program a bot to write this stuff.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Exactly. The goal is to beat the other side, and if you can't do that, make the other side look bad. And when that fails, file lawsuits.

Romenycare worked fine for the Republicans when they put it in place, and no one filed lawsuits.

Not living in Mass, I'm not an expert on their local politics, but there were lawsuits over Romneycare as well. Pretty sure Boston Medical Center sued the state over it.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Not living in Mass, I'm not an expert on their local politics, but there were lawsuits over Romneycare as well. Pretty sure Boston Medical Center sued the state over it.

But my point is it wasn't political parties.

The Republican party, at the state level, passed a law about healthcare and it seems to have worked. When Democrats copied the law and applied it to the state level, Republicans did everything in the power to shoot it down- and the continued to fight it after it became a law.

Maybe if we Mitt in office we wouldn't have had half the issues we this bill.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Okay, I just read through every post in this thread again to see if maybe you are responding to something I missed. Not one single person in here is defending Republicans. Why do you keep bringing up the Republicans?

If the best thing you can say about the Democrats is that they are not Republicans, then you are abdicating responsibility for the issues. If Bush didn't do certain things he could have with a Republican congress, it was because he did not want to. If Obama didn't do certain things he could have with a Democrat congress, it was because he did not want to.

If I have a toothache and I punch myself in the face repeatedly, I'm doing something. But that something would not be helping.

You seriously seriously think that, in a down economy, fining poor people for being too poor to buy insurance from wealthy corporations is helping????

Because that's what this topic is about.. See Vend here really hates Obama.. He is pretty much obsessed about how much he hates Obama, usually he starts two or three topics a week about anything he can blame Obama for. Be it the sky is blue or dirt is brown and grass is green.. It's all Obama's fault,

Vend doesn't care about ACA or making it better or having working healthcare he just hates Obama, search his name you will find countless topics just like this one. The topic is just his latest Fox News inspired ranting, in a few more days he will post another..

[Robbie]

crockett, you are the one in here "hating" on Republicans from out of the blue. And you are the one who is attacking Vendzilla instead of discussing the actual topic.

I think you might be doing exactly what you are saying he is doing.

What makes you think that Vendzilla just "hates" Pres. Obama?

Is it possible, in your mind, that a person could just vehemently disagree with the policies and direction of the Pres. without "hating" him?

Honestly man, the person I see making things all about Republicans VS Democrats is YOU.

Most of the rest of us on here are smartened up enough to realize that this is not about the game that politicians play to make us choose some imaginary "side".

How about we just drop all the Republican VS Democrat fantasy bullshit and discuss the actual effect that ObamaCare is having.

If you chill out on the team spirit for a second, you would see that there have been some pretty intelligent posts in this thread discussing what should be done to stop the price-gouging by Big Pharma and Big Medical Corp.'s

Give the vitriol and hatred a rest for just a second.
Vendzilla isn't the problem.

The greed and corruption of Washington D.C. is to blame for what has been happening to the cost of healthcare in the U.S. for the last 3 decades.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by crockett

Because that's what this topic is about.. See Vend here really hates Obama.. He is pretty much obsessed about how much he hates Obama, usually he starts two or three topics a week about anything he can blame Obama for. Be it the sky is blue or dirt is brown and grass is green.. It's all Obama's fault,

Vend doesn't care about ACA or making it better or having working healthcare he just hates Obama, search his name you will find countless topics just like this one. The topic is just his latest Fox News inspired ranting, in a few more days he will post another..

I'm pretty sure the majority of the people in this thread who are unhappy with ACA:

(a) are not Republicans
(b) voted for Obama at least once

Do you have an opinion on how to have affordable healthcare in America or are you just a pom-poms person?

[deltav]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

I'm pretty sure the majority of the people in this thread who are unhappy with ACA:

(a) are not Republicans
(b) voted for Obama at least once

Do you have an opinion on how to have affordable healthcare in America or are you just a pom-poms person?

Nah, crockett is pretty much right on about the OP's motivation for starting the thread (going from past history), I think he was just frustrated hearing the same old schtick.

That aside, it's a discussion worth having. Will be very interesting to see how things play out.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Get right down too it, neither side has a clear answer as to what will truly work for the citizens, only what will work for them.

We were promised healthcare reform, when there was nothing wrong with healthcare, it was making it affordable. Making people that already pay for insurance pay more so people that don't have it can get subsidized is clearly not going to work as now people that are working and earning are getting penalized.

ACA just gives a big paycheck to the Insurance companies.

So many lies were made to get this passed and no one would believe that they were lies, they just wanted to believe in CHANGE. Nope, more of the same!!!

I don't know what would have happened if Romney would have won with the ACA, but I think we would have done better with our economy, which would have put more people to work, which in turn would have had more people getting medical insurance thru their employer. Accounting for the workforce getting smaller and smaller under Obama

I can't say what Romney would or would not have done as far as the economy goes had he won. However, had he won I can say with 99% certainty what would have happened as far as the ACA and healthcare reform. . . nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The republicans weren't talking about this prior to the election. This was never on their radar. The democrats forced the conversation during the election. Then when Obama began pushing the ACA the republicans were asked how they would better handle it. They had no answer.

Maybe nothing would have been better than what we have. As I have said, the ACA actually works for me, but I also understand that for many others it does not.

I am of the opinion that some kind of radical change in our healthcare system will need to take place or eventually it will crush the middle class. Most people and families are one serious illness or injury away from bankruptcy and financial ruin. When the largest cause of personal bankruptcies in the nation are due to medical bills and most of those who end up in bankruptcy have health insurance, it it is a sure fire sign that things are going in the wrong direction.

The ACA doesn't help the problem because it does nothing to reduce costs. But lets not fool ourselves into thinking that the republicans would have come up with a better plan.

[Axeman]

Originally Posted by kane

The ACA doesn't help the problem because it does nothing to reduce costs. But lets not fool ourselves into thinking that the republicans would have come up with a better plan.

And in the world of politics, most of the time, doing nothing, leaves the people better off, than when they do something.

And for the state of the economy in 2009, ignoring Healthcare until things were growing, and tackling it in the 2nd term would have been the proper way to go. But politicians are about making a name for themselves in history. The well being of the country and their citizens have little do with how the parties operate.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Axeman

And in the world of politics, most of the time, doing nothing, leaves the people better off, than when they do something.

And for the state of the economy in 2009, ignoring Healthcare until things were growing, and tackling it in the 2nd term would have been the proper way to go. But politicians are about making a name for themselves in history. The well being of the country and their citizens have little do with how the parties operate.

I agree. I think the economy should have been the #1 thing that Obama focused on when getting into office. Once the economy was back on track we could have taken a look at healthcare reform.

In many cases leaving things alone to work themselves out can be a good solution. The problem is that the healthcare industry is firmly entrenched in our political system so the rules are not the same for everyone in the game. Those laws aren't going to change on their own and until they do things will not get better.

[Axeman]

Originally Posted by kane

In many cases leaving things alone to work themselves out can be a good solution. The problem is that the healthcare industry is firmly entrenched in our political system so the rules are not the same for everyone in the game. Those laws aren't going to change on their own and until they do things will not get better.

Yep, its quite the catch 22. The government had and has no choice but to step in and help fix the health industry. But the biggest reason why they need to step in, is because they stepped into it in the first place with the HMO act in 1973. Start a problem, which forces you to forever step and an fix the problems created. Its quite the racket!

[kane]

Originally Posted by Axeman

Yep, its quite the catch 22. The government had and has no choice but to step in and help fix the health industry. But the biggest reason why they need to step in, is because they stepped into it in the first place with the HMO act in 1973. Start a problem, which forces you to forever step and an fix the problems created. Its quite the racket!

We need to come up with a system like that. Get paid to break something, then get paid to fix it. lol