Why do some huge cam sites use 3rd party processors?

[Mutt]

How come sites billing 100's of millions of dollars a year use Epoch and CCBILL rather than merchant account/netbilling?

[MaDalton]

because not everyone pays 15%

[iSpyCams]

For one thing the biller you see on the main page might not be the one in use for every campaign/country/white label, etc.

For another not everybody needs to tweak and customize their scrub, set up their own customer service line, run their own gateway and micromanage their join forms and can get by just fine with a one stop shop and most likely don't miss those headaches.

[trevesty]

I doubt someone doing 7 figures or more per day pays the same rates or gets the same treatment as someone who barely does 4 figures per day.

In short, they probably get way better rates and other resources from the 3rd party guys, because they make them in a day what a small shop might in a year, if they're lucky.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

because not everyone pays 15%

And there is your answer....

[BareBacked]

I imagine it has to do with chargebacks and ofcourse they are not paying what the average is..

[LeRoy]

Some have their own billing.

[2MuchMark]

Different billers offer different services. Some provide cheap processing, while others provide more services for a higher rate. Some accept transactions from some parts of the world and not others. Some have higher or lower scrub filters than others, etc. And Madalton is right. Not everyone pays the standard price per transaction. The transaction rate can be lowered with increased volume and or can be negotiated with your rep.

[iSpyCams]

You can see right here they bill on a sliding scale based on volume:

https://www.ccbill.com/developers/fa...illing-faq.php

[ChargeBacks]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

because not everyone pays 15%

Mutt rates can range from 7% to 16% based on volume.

Originally Posted by LeRoy

Some have their own billing.

This is also correct. Some have created their own billing company.

[American Psycho]

No really big sites I know process with ccbill.
which ones use ccbill?

Epoch however they do use because epoch allows you to use your own merchant account and use them only as a gateway like any other gateway.

[NETbilling]

Most larger sites and program do run their own merchant accounts these days and utilize a gateway such or NETbilling or others, typically as the primary processor. It's not just because of the savings either. The amount of control that you get along with the ability to control all aspects including fraud scrubbing, join forms, one click options, dwells,, all the way down to how our call center handles customer service on the merchants behalf, plays a huge role.

Mitch

[adultmobile]

We use merchant with a few other billers as secondary, like most cam sites.
There are a number of reasons for listing also billers such as Epoch, for example:

1) Some customers are paranoid about entering their credit card number in biller pages they don't know, so they may want to use only Epoch/CCbill forms, no matter what.

2) Epoch give us also paypal (europe) and lots of prepaid voucher and bank systems extra to visa/mc of the merchant. To support directly those vouchers etc. would cost too much of integration and time.

3) Except what people there call "scrub", even if you have merchant account that approves ALL the transactions as the bank wishes, the card schemes are silly, so for example lots of USA cards will simply not work transacting an european merchant, unless call the bank and pre-approve, or even you get phone call from the bank: "was it really you?", just because that's a foreign transaction. There is where another processor, perhaps USA one, may be useful.

[NETbilling]

Originally Posted by adultmobile

We use merchant with a few other billers as secondary, like most cam sites.
There are a number of reasons for listing also billers such as Epoch, for example:

1) Some customers are paranoid about entering their credit card number in biller pages they don't know, so they may want to use only Epoch/CCbill forms, no matter what.

2) Epoch give us also paypal (europe) and lots of prepaid voucher and bank systems extra to visa/mc of the merchant. To support directly those vouchers etc. would cost too much of integration and time.

3) Except what people there call "scrub", even if you have merchant account that approves ALL the transactions as the bank wishes, the card schemes are silly, so for example lots of USA cards will simply not work transacting an european merchant, unless call the bank and pre-approve, or even you get phone call from the bank: "was it really you?", just because that's a foreign transaction. There is where another processor, perhaps USA one, may be useful.

Our merchants that use externally hosted pages by other billers (or us) vs their own securely hosted pages fully integrated into the tour/'site seem to convert better when using integrated forms, as long as they are secure. We also handle phone signups for our merchants that that also help give consumers a good piece of mind.

Mitch

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Why do some huge cam sites use 3rd party processors?

Originally Posted by LeRoy

Some have their own billing.

No shit. LOL.

[SplatterMaster]

Originally Posted by American Psycho

No really big sites I know process with ccbill.

MFC uses CCBill.
Met Art uses CCBill.

IMO people trust CCBill more than Joe Smoe's billing company when joining a site.

[American Psycho]

Originally Posted by SplatterMaster

MFC uses CCBill.
Met Art uses CCBill.

IMO people trust CCBill more than Joe Smoe's billing company when joining a site.

You're missing the point ...
billers allow you to use your own merchant account!

just because a site uses a biller does not mean they're using a "third-party merchant account" they are most probably using their own merchant account and using the biller only as a gateway.

[arock10]

I'm not a huge site but I actually have a better sales ratio with epoch then my merchant account setup. But I'm pretty sure I'm the only one

[PornDiscounts-V]

Originally Posted by adultmobile

We use merchant with a few other billers as secondary, like most cam sites.
There are a number of reasons for listing also billers such as Epoch, for example:

1) Some customers are paranoid about entering their credit card number in biller pages they don't know, so they may want to use only Epoch/CCbill forms, no matter what.

And on the opposite side of the issue, I know of a large percentage of porn users who specifically will not use CCBILL because they are paranoid schizophrenics. They always send me Emails to my affiliate sites warning me of using CCBILL sponsors and linking codes. Apparently, according to them, CCBILL funnels money to terrorists, supports under-age stuff, etc... and they will send me proof. Every once in a while I counter their proof with actual proof. They send back that I must have "drank the kool-aid" and have "written me off of their list"...

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by LeRoy

Some have their own billing.

look at the big brain on LeRoy

[MrDeiz]

from what i've heard 3rd party billers give very good conditions on volume. so afterall it's almost the same as your own merchant, but much less hassle.

[slapass]

Originally Posted by American Psycho

You're missing the point ...
billers allow you to use your own merchant account!

just because a site uses a biller does not mean they're using a "third-party merchant account" they are most probably using their own merchant account and using the biller only as a gateway.

That is interesting. We always here how sales go up when using your own account. I wonder if this is true nder this set up too.

[CarlosTheGaucho]

You can run a merchant account w. Epoch as well, and I'm sure the third party billing rates, as mentioned above, slide towards the total you'd pay with a merch. account if you do enough volume.

One thing, besides that a third party biller may have plenty of local payment options integrated already, resulting in a better conversion rate, is that cams are a notorious pain regarding fraud management, any helping hand welcomed.

Running own billing, yes with the volume an established site may do this is justifiable as well.

[NETbilling]

Originally Posted by SplatterMaster

MFC uses CCBill.
Met Art uses CCBill.

IMO people trust CCBill more than Joe Smoe's billing company when joining a site.

MFC uses NETbilling as primary

[NETbilling]

Originally Posted by slapass

That is interesting. We always here how sales go up when using your own account. I wonder if this is true nder this set up too.

When you have full control over things and the flexibility to d so, you can do wonderful things.

Mitch

[NETbilling]

Any questions?

Mitch

[JFK]

Originally Posted by NETbilling

Any questions?

Mitch

Yes, what's for supper ?

[NETbilling]

Originally Posted by JFK

Yes, what's for supper ?

Ribeye tonight

[JA$ON]

Processing on that level is VERY difficult. Yes, you make a very small % more doing it yourself, but it is FAR, FAR better to let a company handle it who's sole job is dealing with the madness.

The extra money you'd make doing it yourself quickly disappears setting up, managing and dealing with the problems and relationships required to process on that level

edit: obviously all cases are different, but the reason why the big ones that I am close to don't do it themselves is the reason above, others may differ

[xNetworx]

Originally Posted by NETbilling

MFC uses NETbilling as primary

[planbpayments]

Merchants doing huge volumes definitely get far better rates than startups and small businsses

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by NETbilling

Ribeye tonight

Now, was that from your own butcher or processed through a 3rd party? :D