A designer gave me an ultimatum
 

So I was having a website designed and the guy told me it would take 2 weeks. So as the two weeks was up and I hadn't seen anything I messaged/emailed him a few times but I got no answer. A week goes by and no answer from him. Then I email him and tell him that if I don't get an answer or see something by May 5th I'll be forced to ask for a refund of my deposit (50%).

So the guy comes through and finishes the website on May 6th and I'm happy and everything and I tell him that I'll send him a payment as soon as I get one in Paypal - I just prefer that over one from my bank account or credit card. Today the designer emails me telling me that I have 24 hours to pay him or he will keep the deposit and sell the theme to someone else.

So I tell him if he does that I'll be forced to make a Paypal dispute on the deposit. He says that I only have 30 days and then tells me to 'Eat it' but little did he know that you get 45 days, not 30. I now have filed a dispute for something that I was never sent.

Is this normal for designers to ask for their money after 5 days or they'd keep a deposit and resell the work that the deposit paid for? I fully intended to pay I just wanted to wait until I got a payment (which I ended up getting minutes after this all went down). I understand people want to get paid and I never ignored a single email from the guy but instead answered them all promptly but when I emailed him I went days to a week without an answer each time.

Edit: when I asked for the design to be done I told him I wasn't in a rush and he told me it would take 2 weeks, after a week of no answers from him i had to give him a deadline which was 2x the time he estimated. Today he told me he should have charged me a rush fee because initially I didn't set a timeline. Is this also normal that designers feel they need to charge a rush fee for work to be completed in a month?

C.O.D. is the norm.

the website was never delivered ive only seen a draft of it that was from a few days ago, some changes were made and i havent even see those changes let alone got the files

You should have had the money for the entire job in PayPal. Two wrongs don't make a right. You gave him no deadline and then gave him one and he met it within one day.

He was wrong for not communicating. His nose isn't clean but neither is yours.

I thought he finished the job on May 6th? Isn't finished the same as delivered?

took the words right out of my mouth

gave him a deadline then he finished it 10 days after i set the deadline

id say delivered is when i have the files finished is when he still has them and hasnt sent any over

You have to be able to pay when it is done regardless of delays. Designers get jerked around a lot so you can imagine what he was thinking when you delay the final payment.

i understand that and i was going to pay him, just wanted to wait a few days for a payment i knew was coming...i could have ignored him like he ignored me but instead i told him about it and replied to every email telling him it was coming soon then today he hits me with one saying if i didnt pay within 24 hours he would keep the deposit and sell the theme to someone else .. thats like me telling him after 30 days that i dont want the theme anymore and i want the deposit back

In the design world, 30 days is standard. At least for animation.

Acting that way is going to hurt in the long run, as a business person.

50% deposit prior to commencing the project and final 50% payment prior to the finished work being uploaded to clients server/hosting is what we do and we've never had issues.

Wait you are angry because the designer won't hand over files when you have said that you will not be paying until you receive a deposit? :1orglaugh

You are a deadset fucking jerk - hope the designer sees this thread and sends it to Paypal.

You should have the money, and send as soon as you recieve all the files. But for him to act like that and send you threats of keeping the deposit etc. I'de out his name so others around here don't fall in with this bullshit. you are both in the wrong here, but it seems he is worse.

Some designers are pure fucking geniuses to come up with excuses for delayed work though, same with content writers. I just love when I get told after 3 weeks that they had internet problems or their sick grandpa had to go to the hospital or they have had the flu so apparently they couldn't answer a mail or icq in a couple of weeks etcetc.

That was just a random rant. Has nothing to do with OP and also don't get offended if you're a designer or content writer unless you feel I got to you hehe :)

I think you're understanding wrong - I already sent him a deposit. I'm angry because he wouldn't give me a couple more days to pay. I already sent him a deposit when we started the work.

The issue is he's telling me he will be keeping the deposit and selling the theme which is when I told him if he wants to sell the theme I would like the deposit back.

i got this one after giving him the deadline and then messaging him on icq:

Ugh... Ok. LOL, hey man. Been trying to find you on here for a few days. Didn't see your ICQ in your emails... my whole list went to numbers when I installed it on my phone. Been a bit tricky trying to figure out who people are. LOL

he didn't try to email me and ask for the icq number even though when i gave him the deadline it was in an email

The norm is 50% deposit, balance COD.

Seems like it's a mess now, good luck to both of you......

You seem like a dream client, it's astounding
There's a problem.

Two wrongs don't make a right. He shouldn't have said anything about selling it to someone else. You set a deadline, he set a deadline. You should have the money when you place the order. You don't go into a restaurant, eat the food, then ask them to wait a couple of days for you to pay. Nor any other business. Payment is due when services are rendered.

Anyway, it seems to me BOTH parties need to chill out and cut each other a break. He wasn't perfect. He's human, we humans aren't perfect. Neither were you. Oh well if he has to wait a couple days. Unless an active site is down and members canceling, a couple days won't hurt anyone.

At a restaurant I get the food first, and then I pay. I haven't gotten anything from him yet and it's not like I'm asking for anything until I pay him.

When I set a deadline it was 10 days later, he sets one for 24 hours?

You are complete fucking moron.

I am complete - thank you. But no need to call me a moron.

Why would you need to wait till you get some paypal, isn't your paypal attached to your bank account and/or credit card? Why didn't you just send payment immediately to him on the 6th right when he finished the project? When you told him you'd pay him "as soon as you get some money in paypal", how is he supposed to know how long that's going to take?

i do but i prefer doing it all from my paypal account since i dont like using a credit card and its easier than moving money back and forth from my bank account to pay people and back

i told him it would only be a few days it wasnt like i said an unlimited time..but still anytime ive done work for someone i dont expect payment instantly especially if theyre communicating with me

i definitely dont tell my clients that i will be selling the stuff they made and keeping the deposit after 5 days

anyways i will be letting paypal handle the dispute, i never received anything from him and ive never seen the finished site so im hoping paypal will find in my favor and return my deposit

i especially hope paypal sees this part:


MoeLoubani 5/11/2012 8:49 PM

ill make sure to open a dispute with paypal

Guy 5/11/2012 8:49 PM

I have an entire industry that will back me up. An entire industry that I've done great work for since 1997. I know people in every corner of this business that will back me up until the sun sets. If you want to battle, it's on.

Guy 5/11/2012 8:49 PM

Your 30 days is over my friend.

MoeLoubani 5/11/2012 8:49 PM

cool let them back you up fucknuts

Guy 5/11/2012 8:49 PM

You have 30 days to dispute

MoeLoubani 5/11/2012 8:49 PM

do i?

Guy 5/11/2012 8:49 PM

Eat it

Dude you are fucking stupid. As a designer if you acted like that when ordering from me I would tell you to fuck off. You are posting shit that don't make sense. You first told us that he completed the design and was happy with and then basically told him you would pay him when you got the money? Now you are saying that he didn't finish it. Make up your mind.

What kind of person hires someone and then says oh well let me get some money and then I will pay you with no real way of knowing when that would happen?

Your mistakes?

Hiring a designer without having the money to pay him right away.
Giving mixed messages with no deadline then a deadline.
How can you give someone mixed messages like that and expect them to be patient to "wait for payment"
Making this stupid ass post to show how retarded you are.

You still aren't making any sense, if your paypal account is linked to your bank account, you simply hit send money and its over, the funds flow directly from your bank account. There is no difficult moving money back and forth. Sounds like you didn't have the balance due when the project was completed and then you created a situation where you have an excuse not to pay.

No deadline doesn't mean you can finish the job in a year. It means let me know when you can finish it. He said 2 weeks I said cool. The later deadline I set was a month after he said two weeks. I'm a bad person for this? I should have just waited forever?

Then I was totally patient as he ignored email after email from me and message after message on ICQ. Did I do that wrong as well? Should I have filed a dispute after what 24 hours of him not messaging me?

He completed the design but has decided that instead of giving me a little time to pay for it (which would have been tonight by the way) he instead has chosen to sell it to someone else and keep my deposit.

After the first week with no reply you should have just done the charge back and got it over with. Next time you do business with someone make sure all terms are clear from the beginning and have the money ready to pay.

Well in that case then I will amend the dispute with Paypal to say that he was 1 day late on my deadline and I no longer wanted the website. I guess that would be okay with you? Since you're soooo against being a few days late?

No deadline doesn't mean you can finish the job in a year. It means let me know when you can finish it. He said 2 weeks I said cool. The later deadline I set was a month after he said two weeks. I'm a bad person for this? I should have just waited forever?

Then I was totally patient as he ignored email after email from me and message after message on ICQ. Did I do that wrong as well? Should I have filed a dispute after what 24 hours of him not messaging me?

He completed the design but has decided that instead of giving me a little time to pay for it (which would have been tonight by the way) he instead has chosen to sell it to someone else and keep my deposit.

I just like keeping the back and forth from Paypal and back to a minimum. I use more than one bank account and I have one set up for just Paypal so if I pay someone from it I need to go add money to that account. It's easier for me to just wait until someone pays me which is every few days and send it out of that. Is that so wrong?

In the real world you bill someone for something and then they pay you sometimes 30 days later sometimes 60 days later. This isn't a new thing it happens all the time. I've never heard of someone keeping in touch with a person telling them the money is coming then the person 5 days after I told him the money was coming pulling the whole

You paid via Paypal, you wont get your funds back, they DO NOT protect buyers of services, only physical product.

We've had this issue several times in the past with clients trying to scam us out of payment, a simple call to Paypal and that dispute goes away and the buyers funds are back in our account.

The ONLY way you can get your funds back via Paypal is if you paid using a credit card to fund your Paypal transaction, if you didn't, sorry to say it you may as well kiss your deposit goodbye unless you can work something out with the designer.

Meh it's only $225. The design wasn't even that good.

a rush fee... lols!

the fuck you say.

dealing with professional people you have vetted is the way to go, then you pay 50%.
Ive never done a graphics deal without paying 50% up front.

If your scared to drop 50% for at least one tour the first time, find another line of business.

If you think your so credible you don't pay shit up front, well, feel fortunate and wave your dick around on gfy.

50% has always been the norm.

if someone paid you 50% and told you they needed a few more days to pay you after letting you be two weeks late would you sell their product and take the deposit after 5 days? the whole time they were in touch with you letting you know it would come soon

Fuck that designer. I sure hope you out the fucknut when you complete your process.

you cant get a refund in a dispute of digital goods. its in the terms

I find it funny you were in such a hurry to get the work yet you didn't have the money to pay for it yet. Good luck winning a chargeback on paypal for services. If you sent the payment for "services" I'm pretty sure you can't win the chargeback. You are better off saving both of you a headache and just paying him for the job and getting your product and then finding a new designer next time.

how was i in a hurry? i gave him as much time as he wanted and it wasnt until he started ignoring me that i told him i would like it done in 10 days..is that unreasonable?

50% up front then you get an invoice and have a month to pay.
He should have had some proofs for you initially before taking the payment, may have made the process quicker as well. sounds like he may not have.

How it goes at my mainstream job and when I freelance.
I have done mainstream work through media companies for a couple decent corporations and non profits in NY and the UK and that was always expected.

If the guy didn't answer you he could have gotten flooded with work or got lazy and kept pushing it off. If there were some complicated parts of the site, he could have not known how to do some of it and freaked out maybe. Something was wrong if he went way past his deadline in general, and it wasn't your fault. You sound like a good guy to extend hs deadline after it went buy and not hearing from em.

5 days notice isn't the norm in mainstream, at least to my knowledge.
Idk about adult designers.

Well, first of all.....

I wouldn't commission a project without having the cash ready to pay. But that's me.

All in all it sounds like your designer is a fucking cocksucker that doesn't deserve to do a job for anyone anymore.

However, sometimes jobs take a little longer then expected. A few days and maybe a week late is fine as long as they are in contact and giving you heads up on the process.

And by all means, never send final payment without all the finished work in your possession.

Every time I see your name on here I think of your lesbian twitter adventure and it makes me chuckle.

Best of luck with resolving this.

you wont get it back because its a digital good the same thing happened to me with freelancer and paypal would not reverse the transaction

lol yeah i eventually got rid of it but man did i have dreams for that at one point

thanks

I just remember you mentioning you had to write as if you were a lesbian, then going on there and seeing them react to your posts. You would be like "Oh, gay marriage, hooray" and they would be going nuts lol. our posting was good, just made me lol a little at the situation.

I probably shouldn't have enjoyed that so much.
but I did

The stupidest thing you can say to a designer - "I'm not in a hurry."

Sure-fire way to get dicked around forever.

rack em we have a winner...

Multiple bank accounts and I have to go physically transfer money over from one to the other. So much easier for me to just wait a few days and then make the payment. Didn't think it would be such an issue but I guess he thought it was.

Be a man, say "Sorry, I was in a bad mood, let's work this out because it would be better for both of us" and move on with your lives :)

So much anger over nothing, really...

tried that but the guy is ignoring me again. oh well. im just hoping when he tells paypal that he never actually sent me anything they'll realize i shouldn't have to pay for something that i havent received + he will be reselling.

the designer sounds like a turd. Its completely normal to have a grace period on invoices and not due INSTANT

BTW he stole your money as he sold the product to someone else, out him here so people dont risk doing business with him again