Affiliates beware, another non paying program - HowIGotRich - Page 12 - GoFuckYourself.com

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoehorn!

Another question for you Dirty D, if you think that PPC is such a shady marketing technique, why do you think it is that several programs have posted here telling me to contact them about getting a PPC campaign going for one or more of their sites?

You've had plenty of time to answer this Dirty D.

Vjo · 12-05-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandballJim

Shoehorn for President of The Adult Affiliates Union.

I second it. Guy is a kick ass affil!

siccmade · 12-05-2009, 12:48 AM

I can't believe I got to the end and shoehorn still has not been paid.

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandballJim

Shoehorn for President of The Adult Affiliates Union.

Iron Fist · 12-05-2009, 12:49 AM

Epic Thread... carry on.

FatBastard · 12-05-2009, 12:50 AM

Bump for the not paying thread

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 12:53 AM

What does Dirty D have to gain at this point from paying Johnny Shoehorn? We have all seen this before. Dirty D. says: "Ok, I'll pay you"
And then it doesn't go away at all. Instead all these bloodthirsty nicknames STILL try to ruin his business. I can already envision the threads: "Oh, so now that Dirty D paid him all is forgiven? NO! He's still blah-blah-blah"

I think this has gone too far. Totally. And now I'm looking forward to Johnny coming to Internext and wearing one of those shirts and confronting Dirty D. I am also curious if Will is going to be there to see what happens as well. Should be interesting. I always wondered what would happen if somebody came face to face with someone else after the things that have been said on here.

I'm looking forward to it.

For the record, I like both guys. I've known Dirty D for many years...since BEFORE he had an affiliate program. I think he may have gotten pissed about the adword on his domain name. And instead of contacting Shoehorn and shitcanning him officially he went about it wrong.

And I think turning this into an attack on Dirty D's business is wrong too. Not that it matters because quite frankly no serious people give a shit about threads like this.

I was just amazed earlier on when people were going on and on about "marketing". It was buying a google ad word folks. That is NOT marketing.

I didn't say that Dirty D should or shouldn't have paid Shoehorn. I was addressing the morons who think they know this business.

By the way...reading the conversation...I can tell you why Dirty D keeps using the word "type-ins" Anybody that uses NATS can tell you that. ANY sale you get that is NOT an affiliate sale shows as a "type-in"

He's just saying what he sees the sale as. I see them that way too when I look at my numbers. Of course he understands the sale came from Google. Just sayin'....if you guys are gonna gang up and try to nail him to the cross, at least do it the right way.

I hope you guys get it worked out. But if not...it'll be entertaining as hell to see what happens if Shoehorn shows up at Internext.

JFK, get the cameras ready.

Vjo · 12-05-2009, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

Probably lots of affiliates getting paid fine, this is one case that just stands out as showing that the program has no problem making up the rules as they go.

I had to go through this shit with CommissionJunction in the spring. Suddenly they decided that my links were receiving a tiny amount of traffic from somewhere on myspace, and we're talking like under %.1. They reversed about $3k in payments on me that I was hanging a big loss on.

I emailed back and forth forever, and they made it perfectly clear they weren't paying me. Then asked me to keep sending traffic to their merchant. LIKE FUCK I'D SEND THEM ANY MORE TRAFFIC. I requested that they terminate my account.

Mysteriously a few weeks afterwards a check shows up from CJ. WTF?

I still ain't ever promoting CommissionJunction ever again. It burns because I occasionally see something CJ exclusive I really want to promote. Yet that fucking burn still keeps me far fucking away. You really think he cares to come back for another burning after you just lit him up once already?

This making up the rules as you go shit has got to be kept in check. Just because you're the one writing the check doesn't instantly give you the right to start fucking people "just cuz", when they've done nothing in the wrong...

The right thing to do is to pay the man for his work, rewrite the ToS, and put it behind you. No one is arguing that you can't put these rules out there if you want to. But if you didn't specifically state that this was against ToS, then nothing illegal has taken place, and the sales sent were 100% legit and qualified.

It's the way you've handled it that really leaves a bad taste with people...

Fuck, I even got paid in the end and I still am bitter and turned off of their program!

Good points, yeah I think Dirty D is standing on principal. That prog has to have a pretty good payout every month and I have never heard word one about Dirty D not paying ever.

Hell Dirty D, I even liked you're Friday flier. It had motivation and fire in it. What I like to see in a sponsor.
Seriously. Great flier. Fired me up to cont working 7 days a week as I always do.

Hey it is his prog. I am sure he pays. Some guys feel strong about PPC and their paysite names. He is one of them.

But (been said a thousand times) should of been in the tos.

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

What does Dirty D have to gain at this point from paying Johnny Shoehorn? We have all seen this before. Dirty D. says: "Ok, I'll pay you"
And then it doesn't go away at all. Instead all these bloodthirsty nicknames STILL try to ruin his business. I can already envision the threads: "Oh, so now that Dirty D paid him all is forgiven? NO! He's still blah-blah-blah"

I think this has gone too far. Totally. And now I'm looking forward to Johnny coming to Internext and wearing one of those shirts and confronting Dirty D. I am also curious if Will is going to be there to see what happens as well. Should be interesting. I always wondered what would happen if somebody came face to face with someone else after the things that have been said on here.

I'm looking forward to it.

For the record, I like both guys. I've known Dirty D for many years...since BEFORE he had an affiliate program. I think he may have gotten pissed about the adword on his domain name. And instead of contacting Shoehorn and shitcanning him officially he went about it wrong.

And I think turning this into an attack on Dirty D's business is wrong too. Not that it matters because quite frankly no serious people give a shit about threads like this.

I was just amazed earlier on when people were going on and on about "marketing". It was buying a google ad word folks. That is NOT marketing.

I didn't say that Dirty D should or shouldn't have paid Shoehorn. I was addressing the morons who think they know this business.

By the way...reading the conversation...I can tell you why Dirty D keeps using the word "type-ins" Anybody that uses NATS can tell you that. ANY sale you get that is NOT an affiliate sale shows as a "type-in"

He's just saying what he sees the sale as. I see them that way too when I look at my numbers. Of course he understands the sale came from Google. Just sayin'....if you guys are gonna gang up and try to nail him to the cross, at least do it the right way.

I hope you guys get it worked out. But if not...it'll be entertaining as hell to see what happens if Shoehorn shows up at Internext.

JFK, get the cameras ready.

If he doesn't know the difference between a typein and someone searching for his site in Google then he is an even bigger idiot than everyone previously thought.

I'll be at Internext in Miami like always. Also be at Phoenix Forum. And Dirty D won't do shit at either, hes in enough trouble with the law.

And I am sure as hell not going to physically attack him like an idiot and get arrested. I will tell him to his face what a scumbag he is though, as well as let as many other people as I can know.

PornMD · 12-05-2009, 01:03 AM

Jesus el savior Christ...12 pages?! This is a bit nuts over $350. The iBill thread is now shorter than this and the old iBill fucked people out of how much money?

Warren · 12-05-2009, 01:05 AM

[QUOTE=Robbie;16616924]What does Dirty D have to gain at this point from paying Johnny Shoehorn? We have all seen this before. Dirty D. says: "Ok, I'll pay you"
And then it doesn't go away at all. Instead all these bloodthirsty nicknames STILL try to ruin his business. I can already envision the threads: "Oh, so now that Dirty D paid him all is forgiven? NO! He's still blah-blah-blah"

I think this has gone too far. Totally. And now I'm looking forward to Johnny coming to Internext and wearing one of those shirts and confronting Dirty D. I am also curious if Will is going to be there to see what happens as well. Should be interesting. I always wondered what would happen if somebody came face to face with someone else after the things that have been said on here.

I'm looking forward to it.

For the record, I like both guys. I've known Dirty D for many years...since BEFORE he had an affiliate program. I think he may have gotten pissed about the adword on his domain name. And instead of contacting Shoehorn and shitcanning him officially he went about it wrong.

And I think turning this into an attack on Dirty D's business is wrong too. Not that it matters because quite frankly no serious people give a shit about threads like this.

I was just amazed earlier on when people were going on and on about "marketing". It was buying a google ad word folks. That is NOT marketing.

I didn't say that Dirty D should or shouldn't have paid Shoehorn. I was addressing the morons who think they know this business.

By the way...reading the conversation...I can tell you why Dirty D keeps using the word "type-ins" Anybody that uses NATS can tell you that. ANY sale you get that is NOT an affiliate sale shows as a "type-in"

He's just saying what he sees the sale as. I see them that way too when I look at my numbers. Of course he understands the sale came from Google. Just sayin'....if you guys are gonna gang up and try to nail him to the cross, at least do it the right way.

I hope you guys get it worked out. But if not...it'll be entertaining as hell to see what happens if Shoehorn shows up at Internext.

JFK, get the cameras read

How do you mean Robbie? this is the second time you have you have said something about seeing Shoehorn in person, I think you need to need to get a grip man, and stop with the bullshit, you are no gangster, I met you and I really dislike threats towards people who I believe are in the right. put the fucking pipe down.

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoehorn!

If he doesn't know the difference between a typein and someone searching for his site in Google then he is an even bigger idiot than everyone previously thought.

I'll be at Internext in Miami like always. Also be at Phoenix Forum. And Dirty D won't do shit at either, hes in enough trouble with the law.

And I am sure as hell not going to physically attack him like an idiot and get arrested. I will tell him to his face what a scumbag he is though, as well as let as many other people as I can know.

He does know the difference Johnny. That was my point. He referred to sales as TYPE INS because in NATS they either show as a type in or an affiliate sale.

And wow. You would really walk up to a man and call him a scumbag? Holy shit bro. What would you do if someone did that to you and you already were pissed at them? Damn. I don't know about you...but I'd slap the taste out of their mouth before the "bag" part got out. lol

You guys need to talk in private. This reflects badly both ways in my eyes. Not that it matters. But just sayin'

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornMD

Jesus el savior Christ...12 pages?! This is a bit nuts over $350. The iBill thread is now shorter than this and the old iBill fucked people out of how much money?

Its actually $477 now because of the new pay period.

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

How do you mean Robbie? this is the second time you have you have said something about seeing Shoehorn in person, I think you need to need to get a grip man, and stop with the bullshit, you are no gangster, I met you and I really dislike threats towards people who I believe are in the right. put the fucking pipe down.

WTF are you talking about? LOL! I'm no gangsta? And you met me? So what? I just explained what I'm interested in seeing. Are you trying to imply something?

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

He does know the difference Johnny. That was my point. He referred to sales as TYPE INS because in NATS they either show as a type in or an affiliate sale.

And wow. You would really walk up to a man and call him a scumbag? Holy shit bro. What would you do if someone did that to you and you already were pissed at them? Damn. I don't know about you...but I'd slap the taste out of their mouth before the "bag" part got out. lol

You guys need to talk in private. This reflects badly both ways in my eyes. Not that it matters. But just sayin'

Actually I run NATS and the way I have it setup, typeins don't show up as "type-ins". Try to know what you're talking about before opening up your mouth.

Yeah, I will call him a scumbag, thats what he is.

Tried to talk, I emailed him for nearly two weeks before brining this to the boards. I don't like drama, I would much rather have gotten paid in the first place.

He knew what he was doing from the minute he removed my payment from NATS and didn't contact me to tell me he wasn't going to pay me. Instead he continued to accept my traffic and joins with no intention of paying me for those sales. Thats a scumbag in my book.

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoehorn!

Actually I run NATS and the way I have it setup, typeins don't show up as "type-ins". Try to know what you're talking about before opening up your mouth.

Yeah, I will call him a scumbag, thats what he is.

Tried to talk, I emailed him for nearly two weeks before brining this to the boards. I don't like drama, I would much rather have gotten paid in the first place.

He knew what he was doing from the minute he removed my payment from NATS and didn't contact me to tell me he wasn't going to pay me. Instead he continued to accept my traffic and joins with no intention of paying me for those sales. Thats a scumbag in my book.

Before "opening up your mouth" Dude, there is no reason to get all disrespectful. I'm merely telling you what he was probably thinking when he wrote the word "type in"

Hell, I guess you are going to take it all the way. Good luck with it. Again I hoped that you guys could somehow work it out. But publicly saying he's a scumbag isn't gonna allow that to happen. Get those shirts ordered and anti-Dirty D websites up and fly that sig. I still think this is no good for either of you.

marketsmart · 12-05-2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I was just amazed earlier on when people were going on and on about "marketing". It was buying a google ad word folks. That is NOT marketing.

I didn't say that Dirty D should or shouldn't have paid Shoehorn. I was addressing the morons who think they know this business.

regardless of what you think robbie, a lot of ppc guys that make a hell of a lot more than you or i do will tell you that ppc is marketing.

i know guys that make 5 figures a day ppc marketing and that is no easy feat..

robbie, if you knew ppc marketing then you would know thats its not as easy as just buying kw's.

if that was the case then everyone would be rich which fom personal experience i can tell you is not true.

anyone who makes a living doing ppc will tell you that they are always searching for that golden kw.

they are not easy to find and when they are found, they are exploited to the fullest.

mainstream companies that have an issue with people bidding on their kw's clearly put it in their terms as excluded kw's.

robbie, as someone who always posts in these type of threads, i have not once seen you take sides with the affiliate..

you always take sides with the program owners which is fine if the program owners are in the right, but in the case the program owner clearly didnt state in their terms that this was an issue.

since you want to involve yourself in this thread, i would have to ask you, are these your terms:

Solo Slut Cash is managed by Intdig LLC. All of the following terms and conditions must be adhered to and are legally binding immediately upon agreement. We reserve the right to terminate any agreement upon our discretion.

You are using this service at your own risk.

Payments are calculated twice a month on the 1st and 15th, for accumulated sign-ups from the preceding period. You will only be sent a check if your account balance is at least $50.00. Payment will be carried over from pay period to pay period until your account has accrued at least $50.00. Checks are processed 30 days after period ending. With check maile within 10 days. We do not send any wire transfers.

All funds are paid by check in U.S. Dollars.

We also may hold checks of webmasters located outside the United States, until their traffic can be verified. This is due to a large amount of fraud from other countries.

Also, any webmaster engaged in fraudulent activity toward any other sponsor will be kicked out of our program without pay

Our log files will prevail in determining amount signups.

We reserve the right to change the payout rate with a 3 day notice.

We reserve the right to cancel this program at any time, without prior notification. In such cases you will be notified immediately and paid for ALL accumulated funds up to that point in time, except in cases where it has been determined you have cheated by violating this agreement in any way will result in forfeiture of all funds.

You may send traffic anyway you like, just do not violate any laws. WE DO NOT ALLOW MAIL OF ANY KIND!!! You may do a test signup as long as you let us know afterward to remove credit.
You may not send hits from sites that do not allow adult content. Failure to comply to this request will result in the immediate cancellation of the account from which the hits were sent and also may result in the forfeiture of any funds owed to that account.

Webmaster referrals payments will be triggered only when the refereed webmaster is actively sending traffic and has accrued 6 sales.

You may post as many links on your site as you wish, but you are responsible for all images on your site. We do not accept any responsibility for your content.

You may not force surfers to click on a banner to get access to certain areas of your site or to get rewards for signing up. Do not send hits from hit bot or any other type of mechanism.

*IMPORTANT* Sending any hits from any URLs which contain and/or promote the following content, programs or linking practices will result in the immediate cancellation of the account from which the hits were sent, and the forfeiture of any funds owed or outstanding on that account: child pornography, bestiality, warez, password selling or trading, newsgroup postings. Also the use of hit bots, self generated signups, will cause cancellation of your account and all outstanding checks cancelled.

The PPS option will not be available to webmasters from Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Brazil, Bulgaria, China, Costa Rica, Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Israel, Jordan, Kaliningrad, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Malaysia, Moldova, Pakistan, Philippines, Romania, Russia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, and Yugoslavia. A case by case basis and special circumstances will only be considered with references.

if so, then would you pay me for sending traffic to claudia using the kw "claudia-maire"?

because if you didnt, you would be going against your terms just like in this scenario...

lastly, what difference does it make if someone goes to a show after this? do you know how many times people have pissed all over each other on the boards and then met at a show a month or so later. i have seen or heard about only 2 or 3 physical confrontations at shows and as far as i recall they were never the result of board pissing.

at this stage in my life i would rather spend my resources getting someone sandboxed and letting them waste the next 2-3 months of their life trying to explain to google why they should not be boxed then going to a show and getting arrested for smacking someone that i had a board piss with..

lagcam · 12-05-2009, 01:17 AM

I am not from US, so forgive my ignorance but why don't you issue proceedings for the recovery of the debt in the small claims courts shoehorn?

It may be adult business but it is still a business debt, and the issue here is TOS.

There is enough evidence to support your claim and it should therefore be an easy ruling on a point of law and a lot cleaner than engaging in tactics that could be construed as trying to damage the sponsor's business.

Once Judgment is attained you then have options to collect the money.

Warren · 12-05-2009, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

WTF are you talking about? LOL! I'm no gangsta? And you met me? So what? I just explained what I'm interested in seeing. Are you trying to imply something?

Yeah I met you, and lose the attitude,was with a few friend's of mine, one of them a "black guy" we were at the bar at the hotel in la during the convention, he went up to your room and you know the rest. idiot kept me waiting, he was my driver, but he had fun, so I let it go.

CybermedAndy · 12-05-2009, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty D

Yep, I had to borrow money to get some gas for momma's car.

I love PPC campaigns.

Funny how you can't read your own examples of bad marketing.

The Shady Shoehorn Marketing Award....

That has a nice ring to it

WOW you are clueless

Stop typing, pay him and STFU already

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

regardless of what you think robbie, a lot of ppc guys that make a hell of a lot more than you or i do will tell you that ppc is marketing.

i know guys that make 5 figures a day ppc marketing and that is no easy feat..

robbie, if you knew ppc marketing then you would know thats its not as easy as just buying kw's.:

I agree 100% And I'm not attacking Shoehorn for it. I was responding to guys who were ignorantly going on and on about "marketing" In THIS case it wasn't any skill. Shoehorn bought the DOMAIN NAME for the keyword. It was low-hanging fruit I suppose. But it didn't represent any marketing was my point. Somehow I got accused of everything under the sun just because I pointed out the truth. Dirty D has a very valid argument here. But I don't think he went about it the right way. Shoehorn has a valid argument as well, but I don't think he should have ever bought the adword for the domain name.

If it had been me, I would have been pissed if someone did that. And I would have written them IMMEDIATELY. That's where Dirty D is in the wrong. And then I would have paid him and shitcanned him. At this point after Shoehorn has done and said all of this and the gfy mob has joined in...I don't know if Dirty D has any incentive to pay him that money.

I just don't know. What would you do NOW in this situation? It looks like lose/lose to me.

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagcam

I am not from US, so forgive my ignorance but why don't you issue proceedings for the recovery of the debt in the small claims courts shoehorn?

It may be adult business but it is still a business debt, and the issue here is TOS.

There is enough evidence to support your claim and it should therefore be an easy ruling on a point of law and a lot cleaner than engaging in tactics that could be construed as trying to damage the sponsor's business.

Once Judgment is attained you then have options to collect the money.

I would have to file in Florida.

I am going to be making some calls to Florida tomorrow though to see about another avenue of getting my money. And before you get all tough guy on everyone Robbie, no, this isn't a threat of violence. Florida has collection agencies.

georgeyw · 12-05-2009, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

How do you mean Robbie? this is the second time you have you have said something about seeing Shoehorn in person, I think you need to need to get a grip man, and stop with the bullshit, you are no gangster, I met you and I really dislike threats towards people who I believe are in the right. put the fucking pipe down.

Clearly the guy is an idiot - I don't know why anyone listens to him.

12-05-2009, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

What does Dirty D have to gain at this point from paying Johnny Shoehorn? We have all seen this before. Dirty D. says: "Ok, I'll pay you"
And then it doesn't go away at all. Instead all these bloodthirsty nicknames STILL try to ruin his business. I can already envision the threads: "Oh, so now that Dirty D paid him all is forgiven? NO! He's still blah-blah-blah"

I think this has gone too far. Totally. And now I'm looking forward to Johnny coming to Internext and wearing one of those shirts and confronting Dirty D. I am also curious if Will is going to be there to see what happens as well. Should be interesting. I always wondered what would happen if somebody came face to face with someone else after the things that have been said on here.

I'm looking forward to it.

For the record, I like both guys. I've known Dirty D for many years...since BEFORE he had an affiliate program. I think he may have gotten pissed about the adword on his domain name. And instead of contacting Shoehorn and shitcanning him officially he went about it wrong.

And I think turning this into an attack on Dirty D's business is wrong too. Not that it matters because quite frankly no serious people give a shit about threads like this.

I was just amazed earlier on when people were going on and on about "marketing". It was buying a google ad word folks. That is NOT marketing.

I didn't say that Dirty D should or shouldn't have paid Shoehorn. I was addressing the morons who think they know this business.

By the way...reading the conversation...I can tell you why Dirty D keeps using the word "type-ins" Anybody that uses NATS can tell you that. ANY sale you get that is NOT an affiliate sale shows as a "type-in"

He's just saying what he sees the sale as. I see them that way too when I look at my numbers. Of course he understands the sale came from Google. Just sayin'....if you guys are gonna gang up and try to nail him to the cross, at least do it the right way.

I hope you guys get it worked out. But if not...it'll be entertaining as hell to see what happens if Shoehorn shows up at Internext.

JFK, get the cameras ready.

LOL - That should be a new conference draw --- 'GFY Celebrity Showdowns.'

Personally, I would like to take a shot at Carmine or Scooter (based solely on avatars), even though I don't know them nor have I ever taken a shot at them over the boards (and, they both seem to be solid dudes). But, we all seem to be in the same weight class and spend about equal amounts of time at the gym! LOL

LOL

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

Yeah I met you, and lose the attitude,was with a few friend's of mine, one of them a "black guy" we were at the bar at the hotel in la during the convention, he went up to your room and you know the rest. idiot kept me waiting, he was my driver, but he had fun, so I let it go.

I don't have an attitude my friend. I don't know who you are. Don't remember you from Adam. Don't know you and don't care. You're the one jumping in at me.

If you read my posts carefully I was asking Johnny if he was going to be at internext because I was curious what would happen when he and Dirty D came face to face. I have stated over and over that I LIKE Johnny. I have no desire to threaten him. Why would I?

I was kinda hoping that if he thought about he and Dirty D meeting at a show, he might cool down a second and maybe the two of them could work it out without the gfy mob stirring up the fight. You have misunderstood what I was trying to say.

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

If it had been me, I would have been pissed if someone did that. And I would have written them IMMEDIATELY. That's where Dirty D is in the wrong. And then I would have paid him and shitcanned him. At this point after Shoehorn has done and said all of this and the gfy mob has joined in...I don't know if Dirty D has any incentive to pay him that money.

I just don't know. What would you do NOW in this situation? It looks like lose/lose to me.

Thats what he should have done, and thats what he should still do, BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

This is a business, not a 3rd grade classroom. A business owner should conduct himself as a professional and do the right thing.

I still fully believe that he could pay me and could regain the trust of affiliates, but the longer he waits to worse it looks for him.

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoehorn!

I would have to file in Florida.

I am going to be making some calls to Florida tomorrow though to see about another avenue of getting my money. And before you get all tough guy on everyone Robbie, no, this isn't a threat of violence. Florida has collection agencies.

Damn, I ain't trying to get all "Tough guy" Sorry if it's coming off that way.

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I was kinda hoping that if he thought about he and Dirty D meeting at a show, he might cool down a second and maybe the two of them could work it out without the gfy mob stirring up the fight. You have misunderstood what I was trying to say.

I have met him at shows, on more than one occasion. Hell, he had breakfast with me and some friends one morning in Costa Rica.

But this isn't about liking someone or not liking someone, its about doing what is right.

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Damn, I ain't trying to get all "Tough guy" Sorry if it's coming off that way.

Its been said before, your board persona sucks. You know I don't dislike you, but you're trying to play devils advocate here when the situation at hand is clearly black and white.

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoehorn!

I have met him at shows, on more than one occasion. Hell, he had breakfast with me and some friends one morning in Costa Rica.

But this isn't about liking someone or not liking someone, its about doing what is right.

I meant the thought of coming face to face with each other AFTER all this stuff has went down. I was kinda thinking that if both of you realized that and then looked real carefully at all the things that have been said in anger...perhaps the both of you would re-think things and something could be worked out. This thread is nothing but stirring up bad feelings that are going to be difficult to ever let go.

marketsmart · 12-05-2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I agree 100% And I'm not attacking Shoehorn for it. I was responding to guys who were ignorantly going on and on about "marketing" In THIS case it wasn't any skill. Shoehorn bought the DOMAIN NAME for the keyword. It was low-hanging fruit I suppose. But it didn't represent any marketing was my point. Somehow I got accused of everything under the sun just because I pointed out the truth. Dirty D has a very valid argument here. But I don't think he went about it the right way. Shoehorn has a valid argument as well, but I don't think he should have ever bought the adword for the domain name.

If it had been me, I would have been pissed if someone did that. And I would have written them IMMEDIATELY. That's where Dirty D is in the wrong. And then I would have paid him and shitcanned him. At this point after Shoehorn has done and said all of this and the gfy mob has joined in...I don't know if Dirty D has any incentive to pay him that money.

I just don't know. What would you do NOW in this situation? It looks like lose/lose to me.

d does have a valid argument here, but unfortunately he didnt have it in his terms. the proper thing to do here was pay shoehorn and then shitcan him..

i also agree that shoehorn crossed the line when he took this from a professional dispute to a personal one..

if i was d, i would have paid him right away and this whole mess would be over..

at this point, both sides are in a losing scenario and since you asked i will give you an honest answer.

personally, i would sue.. its the dumbest thing to do giving money to the lawyers, but once someone started threatening my business whether i was right or wrong in the first place, i have to defend what is mine.

however, i am stubborn to the point of being stupid so i wouldnt recommend what i just typed..

maybe what one solution would be is to have shoehorn paid, the thread deleted and everyone moves on and its dropped..

sometimes when you lose you actually win and sometimes when you win you actually lose and sometimes you neither lose or win but you put it behind you and walk away..

Vjo · 12-05-2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I agree 100% And I'm not attacking Shoehorn for it. I was responding to guys who were ignorantly going on and on about "marketing" In THIS case it wasn't any skill. Shoehorn bought the DOMAIN NAME for the keyword. It was low-hanging fruit I suppose. But it didn't represent any marketing was my point. Somehow I got accused of everything under the sun just because I pointed out the truth. Dirty D has a very valid argument here. But I don't think he went about it the right way. Shoehorn has a valid argument as well, but I don't think he should have ever bought the adword for the domain name.

If it had been me, I would have been pissed if someone did that. And I would have written them IMMEDIATELY. That's where Dirty D is in the wrong. And then I would have paid him and shitcanned him. At this point after Shoehorn has done and said all of this and the gfy mob has joined in...I don't know if Dirty D has any incentive to pay him that money.

I just don't know. What would you do NOW in this situation? It looks like lose/lose to me.

Robbie, with all due respect, why not allow affils to bid on ppc kws with the exact name as your paysite? (Rhetorical, I know you have answered that a hundred times)

First of all only one guy gets the Google listing so the other affils promote you maybe on other engines where you have no presence.

Second, some guys doing ppc also have websites too. Fresh eyeballs left on the table by both you and Dirty D.

But your call of course.

Good discussion as always.

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I meant the thought of coming face to face with each other AFTER all this stuff has went down. I was kinda thinking that if both of you realized that and then looked real carefully at all the things that have been said in anger...perhaps the both of you would re-think things and something could be worked out. This thread is nothing but stirring up bad feelings that are going to be difficult to ever let go.

If he pays me the money that I am owed then it will be the end of this. People have been saying it since the first page, pay me what I am owed and this whole thing will be over.

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoehorn!

Its been said before, your board persona sucks. You know I don't dislike you, but you're trying to play devils advocate here when the situation at hand is clearly black and white.

I don't care what people say about my board persona...and it's not "black and white" to me. I'm speaking my mind. That's all. I don't agree with you buying his domain name as an adword. I don't agree with him not contacting you as soon as he found out. I don't agree with him not paying you. And I don't agree with you starting this thread and encouraging people to attack his business.

That's just the way I see it. And I'm glad you don't "dislike" me. What a ringing endorsement.

I LIKE you just fine. Thought you were a funny guy. I guess I should change that to I don't "dislike" you so my internet feelings aren't hurt. heh-heh

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

maybe what one solution would be is to have shoehorn paid, the thread deleted and everyone moves on and its dropped..

That is the only thing I've wanted since I first started emailing him 2 weeks ago.

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

d does have a valid argument here, but unfortunately he didnt have it in his terms. the proper thing to do here was pay shoehorn and then shitcan him..

i also agree that shoehorn crossed the line when he took this from a professional dispute to a personal one..

if i was d, i would have paid him right away and this whole mess would be over..

at this point, both sides are in a losing scenario and since you asked i will give you an honest answer.

personally, i would sue.. its the dumbest thing to do giving money to the lawyers, but once someone started threatening my business whether i was right or wrong in the first place, i have to defend what is mine.

however, i am stubborn to the point of being stupid so i wouldnt recommend what i just typed..

maybe what one solution would be is to have shoehorn paid, the thread deleted and everyone moves on and its dropped..

sometimes when you lose you actually win and sometimes when you win you actually lose and sometimes you neither lose or win but you put it behind you and walk away..

Great post.

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vjo

Robbie, with all due respect, why not allow affils to bid on ppc kws with the exact name as your paysite? (Rhetorical, I know you have answered that a hundred times)

First of all only one guy gets the Google listing so the other affils promote you maybe on other engines where you have no presence.

Second, some guys doing ppc also have websites too. Fresh eyeballs left on the table by both you and Dirty D.

But your call of course.

Good discussion as always.

I would have ZERO problem with people using Claudia-Marie as PART of an adword campaign. Why not? Now if they were just using "Claudia-Marie" then I would have a problem with that. I work hard to keep that spot. And believe me I've had some work cut out for me with some guys who have gotten that top spot and are so damn good at SEO that I couldn't figure out HOW the hell they did it! So not being a SE guru type...I just go to work on writing text and making sure that I am the most relevant thing to come up. It's all I know how to do.

But yeah, if somebody wanted to PPC "Claudia-Marie Big Tits" or something similar...I wouldn't see any problem in that at all. And if they had the writing skills to make it look better than what I do, then they are welcome to the sales. I have no problem competing creatively when it comes to writing. I enjoy that.

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I don't care what people say about my board persona...and it's not "black and white" to me. I'm speaking my mind. That's all. I don't agree with you buying his domain name as an adword. I don't agree with him not contacting you as soon as he found out. I don't agree with him not paying you. And I don't agree with you starting this thread and encouraging people to attack his business.

That's just the way I see it. And I'm glad you don't "dislike" me. What a ringing endorsement.

I LIKE you just fine. Thought you were a funny guy. I guess I should change that to I don't "dislike" you so my internet feelings aren't hurt. heh-heh

Not only did he not contact me, but he continued to take my traffic and sales. Thats why this is fucked up on so many levels.

I also never encouraged anyone to attack his business. I gave the facts and people agreed with me, and disagreed with how he chose to handle it from the start. I've had people emailing and ICQing me since page 1 saying he is wrong and needs to pay me, and a few of them are close friends with Dirty D, which is why they didn't post.

Why do you think there has been more than one program asking me to email them to start a PPC campaign for them? They know the value of it.

We're talking about 11 pages of people all saying the same thing. This is that clear to nearly every single person that has posted in this thread since the start.

This isn't personal, this is business. My business is owed money from his business. People need to be made aware of this so they don't find themselves in a similar situation.

Of course, he could do the right thing and pay me, at which point I would make an announcement and ask that the thread be closed. But until I get paid, this is something that needs to be addressed.

lagcam · 12-05-2009, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I ............That's all. I don't agree with you buying his domain name as an adword............

Lot of mis-information about PPC in this thread.

You don't "buy a domain name" you bid on the keyword of the domain name and EVERYBODY who bids on that keyword will appear in the paid google listings in the order of the size of their bid.

Not all clicks result in sales, so shoehorn is spending his own money to send traffic o the sponsor.

Although that is not the point of issue here the TOS are.

This thread and the curious cash one are ridiculous really.

GFY as the industry's leading board should set up an arbitration panel of industry experts, sponsors, affiliates, lawyers etc who would listen to the "evidence" in cases like these and make a ruling based on majority opinion. Clean quick and impartial and with nobody's business being damaged more than it needs to be.

BillyHoe · 12-05-2009, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoehorn!

That is the only thing I've wanted since I first started emailing him 2 weeks ago.

Have you offered him to try and get the thread removed if he pays? That might be an incentive he'll go for.

Warren · 12-05-2009, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I don't have an attitude my friend. I don't know who you are. Don't remember you from Adam. Don't know you and don't care. You're the one jumping in at me.

If you read my posts carefully I was asking Johnny if he was going to be at internext because I was curious what would happen when he and Dirty D came face to face. I have stated over and over that I LIKE Johnny. I have no desire to threaten him. Why would I?

I was kinda hoping that if he thought about he and Dirty D meeting at a show, he might cool down a second and maybe the two of them could work it out without the gfy mob stirring up the fight. You have misunderstood what I was trying to say.

I'm not your friend nor do I want to be after reading your shit, I only remember you because of the incident I mentioned, don't get confused, not all people rely on porn so I really don't give a fuck who, you think you are, you are nothing to me.

So are you denying Robbie, that my friend "the black guy" you met for five minutes at the hotel bar in LA, btw I talked to you and okyed it for my driver to go to your room with you and you're girl.

You make me laugh, stop it, not all of us are idiots.

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

I'm not your friend nor do I want to be after reading your shit, I only remember you because of the incident I mentioned, don't get confused, not all people rely on porn so I really don't give a fuck who, you think you are, you are nothing to me.

So are you denying Robbie, that my friend "the black guy" you met for five minutes at the hotel bar in LA, btw I talked to you and okyed it for my driver to go to your room with you and you're girl.

You make me laugh, stop it, not all of us are idiots.

I look forward to seeing you and D at any show.

Look man, I don't know or care about you one way or another. If I met you fine. If I didn't fine. Who gives a fuck? And if you're looking forward to seeing me then please come up to me anytime and tell me who you are. Or don't. I could give a shit.

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyHoe

Have you offered him to try and get the thread removed if he pays? That might be an incentive he'll go for.

Yes I have, for two weeks. I also gave him the option to work it out with me before I went to the boards, to which he replied "If you choose to whine on GFY, make sure you are accurate. To be fair, please make sure the title of your post say: "Do any programs payout for google PPC containing the exact spelling of their own domains?".

I am still willing to work this out with him, all I want is to be paid the money that I am owed. After I get my money, I will ask Eric to close this thread.

Shoehorn! · 12-05-2009, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoehorn!

Yes I have, for two weeks. I also gave him the option to work it out with me before I went to the boards, to which he replied "If you choose to whine on GFY, make sure you are accurate. To be fair, please make sure the title of your post say: "Do any programs payout for google PPC containing the exact spelling of their own domains?".

I am still willing to work this out with him, all I want is to be paid the money that I am owed. After I get my money, I will ask Eric to close this thread.

I also want to add that I am a very easy person to get along with, and I am not in this for the drama. In fact I hate drama. Run a search, you'll see that I haven't been involved in any big drama here before. I treat people fairly and with respect, and I think that I should be given the same courtesy. Nothing I have posted in this thread was untrue.

What it comes down to is that I deserve to be paid the money that I am owed. Its as simple as that.

Warren · 12-05-2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Look man, I don't know or care about you one way or another. If I met you fine. If I didn't fine. Who gives a fuck? And if you're looking forward to seeing me then please come up to me anytime and tell me who you are. Or don't. I could give a shit.

Listen for the last fucking time, you said you were looking forward to seeing Shoehorn meet D, Dont be a pussy, I know what you meant by that. you and I both know nothing will happen, because after D comes down, he will pay Shoehorn and that will be it.

You on the other hand are full of shit, you know exactly where and when we met. come up to you? now you really are being a funny guy.

MoreMagic · 12-05-2009, 02:10 AM

I was asking myself. If he treats his affiliates like this and doesn't stand up as a man to acknowledge his mistakes. How big is the change that this guy Dirty D is shaving his affiliates? I am sure he can invent a million fucked up reasons that let him think it's fair.

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

Listen for the last fucking time, you said you were looking forward to seeing Shoehorn meet D, Dont be a pussy, I know what you meant by that. you and I both know nothing will happen, because after D comes down, he will pay Shoehorn and that will be it.

You on the other hand are full of shit, you know exactly where and when we met. come up to you? now you really are being a funny guy.

You are seriously insane man. I don't remember you. Sorry. I was drunk and having fun. Sounds like you are trying to provoke me though. Good luck. lol

Why wouldn't you come up to me if you and I met and had laughs at a bar in LA? WTF is wrong with you? I just told you, I don't know you, I have fun and party at lots of places with lots of people. Trying to remember some guy from the show back in the summer just isn't registering for me. Sorry.

If we ever meet again, just remind me. Jesus man. And if not....who cares? You've already said you basically hate my guts or whatever. So who cares?

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 12-05-2009, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

I'm not your friend nor do I want to be after reading your shit, I only remember you because of the incident I mentioned, don't get confused, not all people rely on porn so I really don't give a fuck who, you think you are, you are nothing to me.

So are you denying Robbie, that my friend "the black guy" you met for five minutes at the hotel bar in LA, btw I talked to you and okyed it for my driver to go to your room with you and you're girl.

You make me laugh, stop it, not all of us are idiots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Look man, I don't know or care about you one way or another. If I met you fine. If I didn't fine. Who gives a fuck? And if you're looking forward to seeing me then please come up to me anytime and tell me who you are. Or don't. I could give a shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

Listen for the last fucking time, you said you were looking forward to seeing Shoehorn meet D, Dont be a pussy, I know what you meant by that. you and I both know nothing will happen, because after D comes down, he will pay Shoehorn and that will be it.

You on the other hand are full of shit, you know exactly where and when we met. come up to you? now you really are being a funny guy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You are seriously insane man. I don't remember you. Sorry. I was drunk and having fun. Sounds like you are trying to provoke me though. Good luck. lol

Why wouldn't you come up to me if you and I met and had laughs at a bar in LA? WTF is wrong with you? I just told you, I don't know you, I have fun and party at lots of places with lots of people. Trying to remember some guy from the show back in the summer just isn't registering for me. Sorry.

If we ever meet again, just remind me. Jesus man. And if not....who cares? You've already said you basically hate my guts or whatever. So who cares?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoehorn!

Thats what he should have done, and thats what he should still do, BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

This is a business, not a 3rd grade classroom. A business owner should conduct himself as a professional and do the right thing.

I still fully believe that he could pay me and could regain the trust of affiliates, but the longer he waits to worse it looks for him.

Good points everyone! Bravo!!!

ADG

MoreMagic · 12-05-2009, 02:15 AM

Page 13 on the way

Robbie · 12-05-2009, 02:18 AM

ADG, I loved the tourettes guy. A couple of years ago they posted he had passed away. I haven't been back to check to see if it was just a pr stunt of if he really died. But that guy made me laugh until I cried.

"FUCK SALT!" Pure comedic gold. Him in the supermarket shopping was fucking hilarious.

12-05-2009, 12:48 AM	#553
siccmade Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,641	I can't believe I got to the end and shoehorn still has not been paid. __________________ Adult XXX Hits - Adult Traffic Exchange. Get free traffic!

12-05-2009, 12:49 AM	#555
Iron Fist Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 23,400	Epic Thread... carry on. __________________ i like waffles

12-05-2009, 12:53 AM	#557
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,841	What does Dirty D have to gain at this point from paying Johnny Shoehorn? We have all seen this before. Dirty D. says: "Ok, I'll pay you" And then it doesn't go away at all. Instead all these bloodthirsty nicknames STILL try to ruin his business. I can already envision the threads: "Oh, so now that Dirty D paid him all is forgiven? NO! He's still blah-blah-blah" I think this has gone too far. Totally. And now I'm looking forward to Johnny coming to Internext and wearing one of those shirts and confronting Dirty D. I am also curious if Will is going to be there to see what happens as well. Should be interesting. I always wondered what would happen if somebody came face to face with someone else after the things that have been said on here. I'm looking forward to it. For the record, I like both guys. I've known Dirty D for many years...since BEFORE he had an affiliate program. I think he may have gotten pissed about the adword on his domain name. And instead of contacting Shoehorn and shitcanning him officially he went about it wrong. And I think turning this into an attack on Dirty D's business is wrong too. Not that it matters because quite frankly no serious people give a shit about threads like this. I was just amazed earlier on when people were going on and on about "marketing". It was buying a google ad word folks. That is NOT marketing. I didn't say that Dirty D should or shouldn't have paid Shoehorn. I was addressing the morons who think they know this business. By the way...reading the conversation...I can tell you why Dirty D keeps using the word "type-ins" Anybody that uses NATS can tell you that. ANY sale you get that is NOT an affiliate sale shows as a "type-in" He's just saying what he sees the sale as. I see them that way too when I look at my numbers. Of course he understands the sale came from Google. Just sayin'....if you guys are gonna gang up and try to nail him to the cross, at least do it the right way. I hope you guys get it worked out. But if not...it'll be entertaining as hell to see what happens if Shoehorn shows up at Internext. JFK, get the cameras ready. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

12-05-2009, 01:03 AM	#560
PornMD Mainstream Businessman Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 9,291	Jesus el savior Christ...12 pages?! This is a bit nuts over $350. The iBill thread is now shorter than this and the old iBill fucked people out of how much money? __________________ Want to crush it in mainstream with Facebook ads? Hit me up.

12-05-2009, 01:05 AM	#561
Warren Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Porn Valley Posts: 2,284	[QUOTE=Robbie;16616924]What does Dirty D have to gain at this point from paying Johnny Shoehorn? We have all seen this before. Dirty D. says: "Ok, I'll pay you" And then it doesn't go away at all. Instead all these bloodthirsty nicknames STILL try to ruin his business. I can already envision the threads: "Oh, so now that Dirty D paid him all is forgiven? NO! He's still blah-blah-blah" I think this has gone too far. Totally. And now I'm looking forward to Johnny coming to Internext and wearing one of those shirts and confronting Dirty D. I am also curious if Will is going to be there to see what happens as well. Should be interesting. I always wondered what would happen if somebody came face to face with someone else after the things that have been said on here. I'm looking forward to it. For the record, I like both guys. I've known Dirty D for many years...since BEFORE he had an affiliate program. I think he may have gotten pissed about the adword on his domain name. And instead of contacting Shoehorn and shitcanning him officially he went about it wrong. And I think turning this into an attack on Dirty D's business is wrong too. Not that it matters because quite frankly no serious people give a shit about threads like this. I was just amazed earlier on when people were going on and on about "marketing". It was buying a google ad word folks. That is NOT marketing. I didn't say that Dirty D should or shouldn't have paid Shoehorn. I was addressing the morons who think they know this business. By the way...reading the conversation...I can tell you why Dirty D keeps using the word "type-ins" Anybody that uses NATS can tell you that. ANY sale you get that is NOT an affiliate sale shows as a "type-in" He's just saying what he sees the sale as. I see them that way too when I look at my numbers. Of course he understands the sale came from Google. Just sayin'....if you guys are gonna gang up and try to nail him to the cross, at least do it the right way. I hope you guys get it worked out. But if not...it'll be entertaining as hell to see what happens if Shoehorn shows up at Internext. JFK, get the cameras read How do you mean Robbie? this is the second time you have you have said something about seeing Shoehorn in person, I think you need to need to get a grip man, and stop with the bullshit, you are no gangster, I met you and I really dislike threats towards people who I believe are in the right. put the fucking pipe down. __________________ ICQ:208-603-797 www.altdollars.com Last edited by Warren; 12-05-2009 at 01:07 AM..

12-05-2009, 12:50 AM	#556
FatBastard Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 155	Bump for the not paying thread

12-05-2009, 01:17 AM	#568
lagcam Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,892	I am not from US, so forgive my ignorance but why don't you issue proceedings for the recovery of the debt in the small claims courts shoehorn? It may be adult business but it is still a business debt, and the issue here is TOS. There is enough evidence to support your claim and it should therefore be an easy ruling on a point of law and a lot cleaner than engaging in tactics that could be construed as trying to damage the sponsor's business. Once Judgment is attained you then have options to collect the money. __________________ Working Cam site for sale - NOT affiliate.

12-05-2009, 02:10 AM	#596
MoreMagic Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,848	I was asking myself. If he treats his affiliates like this and doesn't stand up as a man to acknowledge his mistakes. How big is the change that this guy Dirty D is shaving his affiliates? I am sure he can invent a million fucked up reasons that let him think it's fair. Last edited by MoreMagic; 12-05-2009 at 02:13 AM..

12-05-2009, 02:15 AM	#599
MoreMagic Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,848	Page 13 on the way

12-05-2009, 02:18 AM	#600
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,841	ADG, I loved the tourettes guy. A couple of years ago they posted he had passed away. I haven't been back to check to see if it was just a pr stunt of if he really died. But that guy made me laugh until I cried. "FUCK SALT!" Pure comedic gold. Him in the supermarket shopping was fucking hilarious. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com