Google hit with record EU fine over Shopping service - GoFuckYourself.com

wehateporn · 06-27-2017, 03:24 AM

Google has been fined 2.42bn euros ($2.7bn; £2.1bn) by the European Commission after it ruled the company had abused its power by promoting its own shopping comparison service at the top of search results.

The amount is the regulator's largest penalty to date against a company accused of distorting the market.

The ruling also orders Google to end its anti-competitive practices within 90 days or face a further penalty.

The US firm said it may appeal.

However, if it fails to change the way it operates the Shopping service within the three-month deadline, it could be forced to make payments of 5% of its parent company Alphabet's average daily worldwide earnings.

Based on the company's most recent financial report, that amounts to about $14m a day.

"What Google has done is illegal under EU antitrust rules," declared Margrethe Vestager, the European Union's Competition Commissioner.

Continued Google hit with record EU fine over Shopping service - BBC News

Barry-xlovecam · 06-27-2017, 04:17 AM

Google AdWords just got more expensive in the EU ...

freecartoonporn · 06-27-2017, 04:57 AM

ill read it later.,
but what did google actually do ?

AndyA · 06-27-2017, 05:50 AM

Google gave themselves undue advantage in the shopping searches.. I mean DUH if you use Google to search for shit their shit that they have deals with are coming up first

Paul Markham · 06-27-2017, 06:31 AM

It's Googles site, are the EU now telling Google what they can or can not put on their site?

LeMeLiN · 06-27-2017, 07:15 AM

I wonder how big a fine they gonna pay if they release their chrome adblocker in 6 months, after a thousand ad networks will shut down.

SpicyM · 06-27-2017, 07:44 AM

hahahaha

Bladewire · 06-27-2017, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It's Googles site, are the EU now telling Google what they can or can not put on their site?

Yes.

Just like Visa/MasterCard tells you what you can put on your site.

Just like your host tells you what you can put on your site.

Barry-xlovecam · 06-27-2017, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMeLiN

I wonder how big a fine they gonna pay if they release their chrome adblocker in 6 months, after a thousand ad networks will shut down.

AdWords sales will go up a lot more than any fine.
Ad networks will need to create ads that wont be blocked -- the strong and smartest will survive.

MaDalton · 06-27-2017, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It's Googles site, are the EU now telling Google what they can or can not put on their site?

let's say you have an online store selling shoes and your potential customers never find you because Google always puts their shopping results on top of you when people look for what you are selling.

clearer now?

SpicyM · 06-27-2017, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It's Googles site, are the EU now telling Google what they can or can not put on their site?

Antimonopoly laws - they have their purpose. Fuck Google.

CoolMikey · 06-27-2017, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanG

let's say you have an online store selling shoes and your potential customers never find you because Google always puts their shopping results on top of you when people look for what you are selling.

clearer now?

No it's not any clearer. Google doesn't have monopoly power for online search, there are dozens of alternatives, some better than others, so customer has a choice, they just happen to choose google because it offers the best user experience.

This whole thing is kinda like going back 15 years in time and attempting to fine thehun for not listing your galleries.

MaDalton · 06-27-2017, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

No it's not any clearer. Google doesn't have monopoly power for online search, there are dozens of alternatives, some better than others, so customer has a choice, they just happen to choose google because it offers the best user experience.

This whole thing is kinda like going back 15 years in time and attempting to fine thehun for not listing your galleries.

you obviously don't understand the lawsuit

blackmonsters · 06-27-2017, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMeLiN

I wonder how big a fine they gonna pay if they release their chrome adblocker in 6 months, after a thousand ad networks will shut down.

Now this is a legit question.

Chrome will not block "good ads".

Barry-xlovecam · 06-27-2017, 11:08 AM

. Search Engine Market Share in Europe 2016 ... Google, 91.92%

That is an almost, damn close monopoly
gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share/all/europe/2016

CoolMikey · 06-27-2017, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

. Search Engine Market Share in Europe 2016 ... Google, 91.92%

That is an almost, damn close monopoly
gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share/all/europe/2016

"A monopoly exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity."

Clearly, google is not the only supplier of search on the net, there are dozens of alternatives, they just happen to be the most popular.

SpicyM · 06-27-2017, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

they just happen to be the most popular.

Yes and they misuse that position... which is unlawful.

SpicyM · 06-27-2017, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

"A monopoly exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity."

Clearly, google is not the only supplier of search on the net, there are dozens of alternatives, they just happen to be the most popular.

Abuse of Monopoly Power

Chapter 2 of the Competition Act states it is illegal for a dominant firm to abuse its monopoly power.

Firstly the OFT must investigate whether firms have a dominant position they will look at:

National or regional market share. Usually a firm would have to have at least 40% of the market to be considered to be a dominant firm.

Abuse of Monopoly Power | Economics Help

Enjoy reading..

SpicyM · 06-27-2017, 12:03 PM

Definition of Monopoly:

A pure monopoly is defined as a single seller of a product, i.e. 100% of market share.

In the UK a firm is said to have monopoly power if it has more than 25% of the market share. For example, Tesco @30% market share or Google 90% of search engine traffic.

Monopoly | Economics Help

This is for UK but such laws are everywhere.

CoolMikey · 06-27-2017, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM

Definition of Monopoly:

A pure monopoly is defined as a single seller of a product, i.e. 100% of market share.

In the UK a firm is said to have monopoly power if it has more than 25% of the market share. For example, Tesco @30% market share or Google 90% of search engine traffic.

This is for UK but such laws are everywhere.

"The Contestability of the market. If barriers to entry are low then the incumbent firm is unlikely to be dominant even with a high market share because new firms can enter if profits are high."

There are dozens of competitors in the search space showing that "barriers to entry are low", consumers can easily switch to another search engine, etc, so I wouldn't agree they have "dominant" position.

Facebook is a 100x better example of "dominant". "Network effect" prevents competitors from easily entering the market, users can't easily switch to another social network, because the whole point is that friends need to be on the same network, etc.

Google really has very little power, I can switch to bing or some other search engine within 2 clicks and never visit google again, so I don't see how they are "dominant".

SpicyM · 06-27-2017, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

"The Contestability of the market. If barriers to entry are low then the incumbent firm is unlikely to be dominant even with a high market share because new firms can enter if profits are high."

There are dozens of competitors in the search space showing that "barriers to entry are low", consumers can easily switch to another search engine, etc, so I wouldn't agree they have "dominant" position.

Facebook is a 100x better example of "dominant". "Network effect" prevents competitors from easily entering the market, users can't easily switch to another social network, because the whole point is that friends need to be on the same network, etc.

So with over 90% of market share, you don't agree they are dominant?

It is defined by EU law, it doesn't matter what you or someone else considers a monopoly.

IMO .. Google is the prime example of uber monopoly. They even used them as an example.

CoolMikey · 06-27-2017, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM

IMO .. Google is the prime example of uber monopoly. They even used them as an example.

How can something be a monopoly if it takes 2 clicks to switch to for example bing, an essentially identical product?

Good layman's definition of monopoly is "if they have you by the balls, then they are a monopoly, otherwise not", clearly google doesn't meet that definition, if google pissed me off, I could switch to bing and my life would be no different.

SpicyM · 06-27-2017, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

"The Contestability of the market. If barriers to entry are low then the incumbent firm is unlikely to be dominant even with a high market share because new firms can enter if profits are high."

There are dozens of competitors in the search space showing that "barriers to entry are low", consumers can easily switch to another search engine, etc, so I wouldn't agree they have "dominant" position.

Facebook is a 100x better example of "dominant". "Network effect" prevents competitors from easily entering the market, users can't easily switch to another social network, because the whole point is that friends need to be on the same network, etc.

Google really has very little power, I can switch to bing or some other search engine within 2 clicks and never visit google again, so I don't see how they are "dominant".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...e_of_dominance

More reading for you..

First it is necessary to determine whether a firm is dominant, or whether it behaves "to an appreciable extent independently of its competitors, customers and ultimately of its consumer."

Under EU law, very large market shares raise a presumption that a firm is dominant, which may be rebuttable. If a firm has a dominant position, because it has beyond a 39.7% market share then there is "a special responsibility not to allow its conduct to impair competition on the common market"

With over 90% no one can doubt they are fucking dominant, jesus

Bladewire · 06-27-2017, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

How can something be a monopoly if it takes 2 clicks to switch to for example bing, an essentially identical product?

Good layman's definition of monopoly is "if they have you by the balls, then they are a monopoly, otherwise not", clearly google doesn't meet that definition, if google pissed me off, I could switch to bing and my life would be no different.

I see.

You're trying to get post count up by pretending not to be able to read.

Why waste our time? So you can get 3 cents a post? At least earn it by listening and responding accordingly please

baddog · 06-27-2017, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Yes.

Just like Visa/MasterCard tells you what you can put on your site.

Just like your host tells you what you can put on your site.

WRONG! again.

Visa/MC and your host may tell you you cannot have illegal content, but they never tell you what legal ads you can present OR the placement on the page.

wehateporn · 06-27-2017, 03:34 PM

To put is simply a monopoly will produce less of a good and charge a higher price for it than in a competitive market. This is bad for consumers because there is less of a product and it costs more. In a theoretical perfectly competitive market, price and output are set by the supply and demand.

oppoten · 06-27-2017, 03:36 PM

Sergey Bris and Larry Brin ought to take their little rat faces and scurry off to Israel while they can

Bladewire · 06-27-2017, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehateporn

To put is simply a monopoly will produce less of a good and charge a higher price for it than in a competitive market. This is bad for consumers because there is less of a product and it costs more. In a theoretical perfectly competitive market, price and output are set by the supply and demand.

Is Google a conspiracy?

Paul Markham · 06-27-2017, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Yes.

Just like Visa/MasterCard tells you what you can put on your site.

Just like your host tells you what you can put on your site.

Tumblr exclude kids from porn, Youtube won't allow porn, etc.

Paul Markham · 06-27-2017, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

AdWords sales will go up a lot more than any fine.
Ad networks will need to create ads that wont be blocked -- the strong and smartest will survive.

Aren't Adwords governed by what people can pay?

Paul Markham · 06-27-2017, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanG

let's say you have an online store selling shoes and your potential customers never find you because Google always puts their shopping results on top of you when people look for what you are selling.

clearer now?

So use Bing or Yahoo. It's their search engine and they have no duty to put sites to the top.

Paul Markham · 06-27-2017, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

No it's not any clearer. Google doesn't have monopoly power for online search, there are dozens of alternatives, some better than others, so customer has a choice, they just happen to choose google because it offers the best user experience.

This whole thing is kinda like going back 15 years in time and attempting to fine thehun for not listing your galleries.

^^^^

It's an outside influence, the EU, dictating to a company that has got to the top by delivering what the consumer wants.

NewNick · 06-28-2017, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

^^^^

It's an outside influence, the EU, dictating to a company that has got to the top by delivering what the consumer wants.

Paul - people are using a search engine in good faith. They expect results that are relevant to their search.

Google did not display the results labelled as "sponsored ads". They delivered the results as if a genuine search of the market place had occurred.

This was a lie.

wehateporn · 06-28-2017, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Is Google a conspiracy?

Every company wants a monopoly, but yeah they will likely rank sites based on what helps their own profits, while telling you it's all about quality

pimpmaster9000 · 06-28-2017, 03:40 AM

it does not make any difference if google users are voluntary or not, the only thing that matters is the market share...if market share greater than specific amount = monopoly....if monopoly = monopoly laws...

MaDalton · 06-28-2017, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So use Bing or Yahoo. It's their search engine and they have no duty to put sites to the top.

you have no idea what the lawsuit is about

CarlosTheGaucho · 06-28-2017, 04:28 AM

A very interesting lawsuit and an important precedent coming up.

CoolMikey · 06-28-2017, 04:46 AM

Another detail I forgot to mention is that their service happens to be completely free.

So it's kinda like if I were to open a hamburger shop in my town that gave hamburgers away, with intention of making $$ on the beverages I sell. People would drive 100s of miles to take advantage of this new brilliant business plan I came up with, and obviously I would achieve high market share.

Then some government bureaucrats would bitch and whine that my business is anti-competitive, that I have to give customers a balanced choice of beverages, that I'm not allowed to just sell my own Mikey's lemonade.

SpicyM · 06-28-2017, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

Paul - people are using a search engine in good faith. They expect results that are relevant to their search.

Google did not display the results labelled as "sponsored ads". They delivered the results as if a genuine search of the market place had occurred.

This was a lie.

Well said.. An explanation for idiots, yet most of them won't get it..

SpicyM · 06-28-2017, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

^^^^

It's an outside influence, the EU, dictating to a company that has got to the top by delivering what the consumer wants.

No Paul, such laws exist in every capitalist country, not just EU.

Without them we wouldn't have any competition, because the huge companies estalished in the beginning have the money and power to ruin any new company trying to touch their market share.

Understand? These laws are actually fair and much needed.

SpicyM · 06-28-2017, 08:33 AM

Microsoft is another monopoly fined by EU ..and not just once..

Microsoft hit with $730 million antitrust fine by EU
Microsoft hit with $730 million antitrust fine by EU - Mar. 6, 2013

Microsoft Corp v Commission
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micros...p_v_Commission

Cry me a river..

Bladewire · 06-28-2017, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

Another detail I forgot to mention is that their service happens to be completely free.

So it's kinda like if I were to open a hamburger shop in my town that gave hamburgers away, with intention of making $$ on the beverages I sell. People would drive 100s of miles to take advantage of this new brilliant business plan I came up with, and obviously I would achieve high market share.

Then some government bureaucrats would bitch and whine that my business is anti-competitive, that I have to give customers a balanced choice of beverages, that I'm not allowed to just sell my own Mikey's lemonade.

Their service isn't free, what are you 12?

You give personal data, surfing habits, their ability to read the contents of your email, and more, in exchange of using Google services.

Google is not free.

CoolMikey · 06-28-2017, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Their service isn't free, what are you 12?

You give personal data, surfing habits, their ability to read the contents of your email, and more, in exchange of using Google services.

Google is not free.

Around here, when no monetary cost is involved = "free".

By your logic, my free hamburger business wouldn't be "free" either, eh? Cause I would learn that John likes hamburgers with cheese, and that Jane always orders extra large fries, magically turning me giving away shit for "free", into "not free"?

Naughty · 06-28-2017, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

No it's not any clearer. Google doesn't have monopoly power for online search, there are dozens of alternatives, some better than others, so customer has a choice, they just happen to choose google because it offers the best user experience.

This whole thing is kinda like going back 15 years in time and attempting to fine thehun for not listing your galleries.

There is no alternative when Google has ~97% market share, you do not get that?

They literally put me out of business for a while after they suspended my account for no reason (their lawyer told me, but he could not do anything since Adwords is a separate entity) back in 2010. 8 years of building an honest Adwords business down the drain. A murderer gets a lower sentence here, for Google, it is suspended for life. Assholes. I wish they left overnight, still do (even though I have a new account on another business, which will never be at its full potential because I'm afraid they will put me and my family on the street).

Paul Markham · 06-28-2017, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

Paul - people are using a search engine in good faith. They expect results that are relevant to their search.

Google did not display the results labelled as "sponsored ads". They delivered the results as if a genuine search of the market place had occurred.

This was a lie.

Google is a free to use search engine, if it were paid for I would agree with your point. It's under no obligation to give user anything that it doesn't want.

Paul Markham · 06-28-2017, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Their service isn't free, what are you 12?

You give personal data, surfing habits, their ability to read the contents of your email, and more, in exchange of using Google services.

Google is not free.

Yes it is. Unless people want to pay to get their services to the top of the list. For the user, it's still free.

Paul Markham · 06-28-2017, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

Around here, when no monetary cost is involved = "free".

By your logic, my free hamburger business wouldn't be "free" either, eh? Cause I would learn that John likes hamburgers with cheese, and that Jane always orders extra large fries, magically turning me giving away shit for "free", into "not free"?

To the user it's free. So your analogy isn't right. To the advertisers, they can choose to pay to get a more favourable listing.

NewNick · 06-28-2017, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Google is a free to use search engine, if it were paid for I would agree with your point. It's under no obligation to give user anything that it doesn't want.

Deception is deception whatever the price.

Deception is deception whether my market share is 1% or 100%.

Its really not complicated.

06-27-2017, 03:24 AM	#1
wehateporn Promoting Debate on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,172	Google hit with record EU fine over Shopping service Google has been fined 2.42bn euros ($2.7bn; £2.1bn) by the European Commission after it ruled the company had abused its power by promoting its own shopping comparison service at the top of search results. The amount is the regulator's largest penalty to date against a company accused of distorting the market. The ruling also orders Google to end its anti-competitive practices within 90 days or face a further penalty. The US firm said it may appeal. However, if it fails to change the way it operates the Shopping service within the three-month deadline, it could be forced to make payments of 5% of its parent company Alphabet's average daily worldwide earnings. Based on the company's most recent financial report, that amounts to about $14m a day. "What Google has done is illegal under EU antitrust rules," declared Margrethe Vestager, the European Union's Competition Commissioner. Continued Google hit with record EU fine over Shopping service - BBC News __________________ Sexy Girls Teasing

06-27-2017, 04:57 AM	#3
freecartoonporn Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NC Posts: 7,681	ill read it later., but what did google actually do ? __________________ SSD Cloud Server, VPS Server, Simple Cloud Hosting \| DigitalOcean

06-27-2017, 06:31 AM	#5
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	It's Googles site, are the EU now telling Google what they can or can not put on their site? __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

06-27-2017, 03:34 PM	#26
wehateporn Promoting Debate on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,172	To put is simply a monopoly will produce less of a good and charge a higher price for it than in a competitive market. This is bad for consumers because there is less of a product and it costs more. In a theoretical perfectly competitive market, price and output are set by the supply and demand. __________________ Sexy Girls Teasing

06-28-2017, 03:40 AM	#35
pimpmaster9000 Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 26,732	it does not make any difference if google users are voluntary or not, the only thing that matters is the market share...if market share greater than specific amount = monopoly....if monopoly = monopoly laws... __________________ Report a suspicious cracker: Click Here

06-27-2017, 04:17 AM	#2
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	Google AdWords just got more expensive in the EU ...

06-27-2017, 05:50 AM	#4
AndyA So Fucking Banned Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Tampa, Fl. Posts: 1,670	Google gave themselves undue advantage in the shopping searches.. I mean DUH if you use Google to search for shit their shit that they have deals with are coming up first

06-27-2017, 07:15 AM	#6
LeMeLiN Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 149	I wonder how big a fine they gonna pay if they release their chrome adblocker in 6 months, after a thousand ad networks will shut down.

06-27-2017, 07:44 AM	#7
SpicyM Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,493	hahahaha

06-27-2017, 11:08 AM	#15
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	. Search Engine Market Share in Europe 2016 ... Google, 91.92% That is an almost, damn close monopoly gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share/all/europe/2016

06-27-2017, 12:03 PM	#19
SpicyM Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,493	Definition of Monopoly: A pure monopoly is defined as a single seller of a product, i.e. 100% of market share. In the UK a firm is said to have monopoly power if it has more than 25% of the market share. For example, Tesco @30% market share or Google 90% of search engine traffic. Monopoly \| Economics Help This is for UK but such laws are everywhere.

06-27-2017, 03:36 PM	#27
oppoten NAME THE JEW Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 4,793	Sergey Bris and Larry Brin ought to take their little rat faces and scurry off to Israel while they can

06-28-2017, 04:28 AM	#37
CarlosTheGaucho Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 9,502	A very interesting lawsuit and an important precedent coming up. __________________ CTG Media \| skype: carlosprague \| cb \|at\| ctgmedia \|dot\| net \| Want to make more with your Dating Traffic? \| Read My Educational Series \| Read my Adult Biz Chronicles \| Did your ad revenue drop by 40 pct. or more last year?

06-28-2017, 04:46 AM	#38
CoolMikey Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 174	Another detail I forgot to mention is that their service happens to be completely free. So it's kinda like if I were to open a hamburger shop in my town that gave hamburgers away, with intention of making $$ on the beverages I sell. People would drive 100s of miles to take advantage of this new brilliant business plan I came up with, and obviously I would achieve high market share. Then some government bureaucrats would bitch and whine that my business is anti-competitive, that I have to give customers a balanced choice of beverages, that I'm not allowed to just sell my own Mikey's lemonade. __________________

06-28-2017, 08:33 AM	#41
SpicyM Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,493	Microsoft is another monopoly fined by EU ..and not just once.. Microsoft hit with $730 million antitrust fine by EU Microsoft hit with $730 million antitrust fine by EU - Mar. 6, 2013 Microsoft Corp v Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micros...p_v_Commission Cry me a river..