nico-t

European Union - Dutch senate ratifies EU-Ukraine treaty | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

'We're too weak to fight EU' Shock admission as Dutch senators overturn referendum result


THE NETHERLANDS today formally ratified a treaty between the European Union and Ukraine that was rejected by more than 60 per cent of voters in a democratic referendum.


Voting in your country is void when you're an EU member.

klinton

and that way, minimum salary in Holland will go down from 8 eur/ hour to 5 eur/ hour...

I dont see noone cheaper than Ukrainians for work, maybe Indians ? but they will never be admitted to EU

Bladewire

But seriously, that's not good the EU can override your own voters I don't like that

But it's just like the United States. States vote but government can override states votes. Statd Racism & Gay marriage were overriden at federal level by our federal government SCOTUS

nico-t

We already experienced it in 2005:

Dutch say 'devastating no' to EU constitution

Quickly after that our EU slave government said "fuck you" to us, the citizens, and put it in place after all.

Bladewire

"Ironically just under two-thirds of senators cast their ballots to drag the deal over the finishing line, the exact inverse of the number of Dutch voters who opposed it just a year ago."

nico-t

Governments have ignored referendums about the EU before

2015: Citizens of Greece reject austerity measures laid on them by the EU for a bail out (caused by another EU fail, its Euro "one size fits none" currency) - IGNORED

2008: Citizens of Ireland rejected the Lisbon Treaty. Instead of ignoring them completely, their government campaigned for it and held another referendum. They don't like the outcome, so they do it again. If it would have been rejected again, they would ignore it or do it again, until they can do what they want. So - IGNORED

2005: Citizens of France rejected the EU constitution, later disguised and shoved down their throats as the Lisbon Treaty. - IGNORED

2005: We the Dutch as well. - IGNORED


Democracy in the EU

nico-t

Yep. Democracy at work.

mineistaken

To be fair - referendum was "advisory" or consultancy or how was are these types called. Eg. government was not mandated to act on it, but it was just "advised".
As opposed to some referendums that are for real (eg. government MUST do as per result).

nico-t

True. But the advise had to be answered "as soon as possible" by law, after the result was known. This was april 2016 (over a year ago).

Rutte is the master of not answering and talking with a smile. He would be a killer salesman. All he had to do was "Yes, we honor the citizens advice", or "No, we'll ignore you and ratify it anyway." He HAD to do this ASAP by law. He never did because it was a lose - lose answer: If he would honor the citizens vote he would go against the EU, something he would never in his life do because he is their puppet. And if he'd say "sorry citizens, i don't care what you say, i'll push it through", he would plummet in popularity. He deliberately didn't do anything with it but excuses. He deliberately didn't dare to say 'Yes' or 'No' because the elections were getting closer.

Retarded people have the memory of a goldfish, so they forgot of course, and elected this fucking master of deception in again.

Now, about 2 months after the elections, he can answer it safely. Remember, "as soon as possible" is what the referendum law says. He did it 1 year and 2 months later, after he lied, laughed and deceived his way on top in our government again. He answered not to the citizens, but to the EU, and we have to read it in the news.

Disgusting, but as long as the people here in Holland are so gullible and so easy to manipulate by a professional liar, they deserve it. I love how some people are now saying 'i wish i voted for this or that instead of Rutte'. I don't even say anything to those people anymore. All i think is 'too late you dumb fucking moron'.

Sarn

And it only start.

pimpmaster9000

producing in the EU just got more competitive...things not commercially possible now are...this will create new jobs as well and ukraine will become a stronger market...you have to grow your markets...also cheap prostitutes and models...

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Bladewire

Are you in Ukraine? I've been thinking of shooting there, is it a cluster fuck?

DraX

I'm still waiting for that special gfy poster to come and defend EU and decisions made of our leaders....

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pimpmaster9000

I am in serbia

as for shooting gay stuff in eastern euro...dude...eat serbian military beans it will cure your homosex...

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nico-t

lets see how relentless EU supporter MaDalton, or better yet top EU lover thommy will react on these democracy destructing facts, i am sure he will come to the rescue. The guy is like a rape victim who fell in love with his rapist

Bladewire

I've only filmed guys fucking 1 time in 18 years I think you have me mistaken for someone else

Serbian men are 🔥🔥🔥

pimpmaster9000

I was under the impression that you shoot homosex vids...then it's cool to shoot in eastern euro...it's much safer than the USA...

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Bladewire

I shoot guys jerking off and/or getting blown & straight stuff ✌️👾

pimpmaster9000

just dont go being openly gay or hit on men and you will be fine in eastern euro

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Bladewire

Have you ever seen Czech hunter?

pimpmaster9000

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Bladewire

Is that sausage I see? 💦🍆


Is there a Serbian hunter?

klinton

Serbia is a nation built of hunters, they are all hunters and gatherers, and in the free time they love to drink turkish coffee..ekhm espresso I meant !!!

Paul Markham

Which is why the UK is getting out. Even though most politicians are determined to stay in.

The only way to bring down the EU is to vote for anti-EU politicians in the next elections. Especially in the elections for MEPs. It's vital to get anti-EU politicians elected for the EU Parliament.

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k0nr4d

Honestly? Most of the ones that apply to me want more then locals. When we hired for video editors recently, Ukrainians wanted 1,5-2x more then what locals wanted for salary whilst having significantly less experience.

It won't drive down salaries, people already have problems hiring for jobs as it is. UA's mostly work at hair salons, factories, courier companies, tesco, etc here from what i've seen.

thommy

what nico is declaring here is simply not true.

this agreement is not allowing immigration and does not make ukraine part of the EU.

that is EXACLY the style of populism to brainwash people by giving them a headline.
i am pretty sure that even this 60% of dutch voters did not know what it is about.

so please read that and tell me WHY populists are so upset (except producing a storm where is not even a wind):

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thommy

good thanks it takes the UK out - because UK have NO CLUE about their own future.

please folks READ THAT INTERVIEW with theresa may and someone please TELL ME WHAT SHE WANTS TO SAY (maybe my english is that bad that i can´t find the deeper sense):

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nico-t

holy shit, this is your argument??


We know EXACTLY what's in the agreement. You assuming you know better, and that 60% of voters who actually researched it do not, shows your appalling arrogance and ignorance. Who said immigration? I didnt, you did. You fantasize some things, and say i said them.

BUT that's not the point.


The point is: We voted against it. But our government obeys the EU Instead of its own citizens anyway. What do you think about that? Please answer. Is that democracy? Please, i really wonder how you are gonna talk this right.

klinton

I think that you somehow miss the point, which is strange for analtycal programmer mind
tip: what kind of salaries do get people in the jobs mentioned below ?
and what kind of in IT ? and which worker is harder to change/ get new qualified ?

Paul Markham

Being part of an organisation that doesn't follow the will of the people when it deigns to ask for the will of the people, isn't anything to be proud of.

As for the UK. It will have a few rough years after leaving the EU. It can handle those years by lowering Corporation tax to attract businesses from the EU to the UK, impose WTO trade rules on the eU in retaliation to the EU doing the same and more importantly stop giving EU migrants benefits.

Theresa May will 'use Brexit to stop EU migrants claiming UK benefits' | The Independent

The benefit to the UK over this will be great. Ridding itself of those people will open up jobs for unemployed Brits taking them off benefits. Release housing for the homeless, etc.

The EU will self-destruct if it won't listen to Europeans. And so far it has ignored all the referendum results any EU Nation State has carried out.

I have no idea what she means, she's a bloody awful campaigner.

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Paul Markham

For people like video editors, it may well not drive salaries down. For people in hair salons, factories, courier companies, tesco, etc. It's been proven mass migration drives salaries down.

The cost of living is rising fast when one includes the costs of housing, so reducing wages or stagnating them has a negative effect. By taking jobs at the bottom of the ladder, it denies a native of that country a job who then has to go on benefits. In some countries, the low wages are subsidised by the government. Overall a policy that's contributing to the rising debt.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...inflation-rate

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Paul Markham

If that doesn't mean the Ukraine can join, what does it mean?

The EU need not fear people like the Dutch, French, Irish, etc. Voting against its policies. They will just twist the arms of the bureaucrats to make sure they get their way. vote for anti-EU politicians who follow the will of the people.

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nico-t

Exactly. I didn't go into this to thommy because i just want his take on the voting issue. I'd love to see how he feels about it when a democratic vote is getting overruled by EU serving politicians.

The treaty with Ukraine is another story, which, indeed, will push Ukraine in the EU eventually.

Exactly. Unfortunately, a lot of people here voted in the EU slave again due to his smart campaign, including an orchestrated campaign stunt of kicking out Turkish diplomats 2 days before the election. People deserve what they vote for, but for us who are seeing the big picture, witnessing the side show and how people are being played so easily, it gets very frustrating.

thommy

paul, it does not make sense to post statistics without the background of those.

first of all you have to know HOW consumer prices are defined.

the price index you shoed here is basicly influenced by the oil price (what have NOTHING to do with wages, jobs or whatever - it just have to do with the world market and speculations on oil).

if you take the oilprices out of that index you will see that interest rates in the years before 2008 have been higher than inflation rate (not good at all because there is no productivity performance what goes along with the money supply).

with other words: people who have saved money in the bank before 2008 made more money with NOT SPENDING money - mean: NOT to bring money in the cyclus and increase the money supply with not existing money.

example: if we both have 100 euro each and i lend you my 100 and you pay me 10% interest you have to give me 110 back and i have done NOTHING for it.

if you pay me back after 20 years you have to give me 611,59 ? back. HOW ?
we had only 200 together !!!!!

so at the end of the 20 years there are 611,59 ? here and this 611,59 ? are reprensenting the productivity of both of us.

means: when your productivity are 10 apple trees - and my productivity are 10 pear trees ALL the apples and pears together will have the value of 611,59

but 20 years before - BEFORE i was lending you my money the same fruits from all this trees had a value of 200 euro.

so inflation is a MUST be in a society what allows to make money with money.
(btw. that was forbidden in MOST cultures and it is still forbidden in islam)

in opposite to what you show here on this statistic the real prices of products (except oil)
went DOWN.

now you will say: see the muslims are robbing our money.
BUT - UK and also the US is an oil exporting country.
so when the pil prices are dropping it just makes the price index look better but in reality this drop of oil prices will cost jobs in this countries and lower the wages.

this is the devils circle we have to break out. and this is what you have to investigate before you throw numbers in a discussion what proves that you are wrong.

economy is a very very complex topic. in fact it is same complex as the laws of mother nature. a small stone you throw can cause an avalanche what you can not forsee because of this comlexity.

money is just an equivalent to our productions and services we are able to do and wherever and to whoever we spend the money is not the question - the question is how to bring it back to circle.

this is also the bis thinking mistake of govermenst when they talk about taxes.
high taxes are good for people who do not spend their money - no matter how much they make. taxes are here to MAKE this spendings what this people don´t make to bring the money back in the circle.

with other words: the prosperity of a country and it´s citizens AND the prosperity of the world and it´s citizens depends on HOW FAST money goes from one hand to the next.

the states are always making money when money goes from one hand to the other. so if you do not spend money there are no taxes. if states are increasing their taxes it effects that spendings will go down and the speed from hand to hand will decrease - that leads to even higher taxes and again less spendings.

but what means this speed from hand to hand also?
it means PROSPERITY !!! people who spend fast will spend a lot - it means that they live in prosperity. as more people can afford to buy as better life they will have.

this is something VERY IMPORTANT to understand when you want to understand economy.

i agree with you that there are TONNS of failures in the system but these failures are done because of people who do not understand how this system works.
that´s why my first change in this world would be, that children get teached these rules right after they can read and write.

your and many other people´s problem is that you try to run against the stream what is not only unlogic ist is also uneconomic. you have to learn to see advantages instead of chaos.

i give you an example:

you are critisizing that low qualified people will take the work from high qualified - that CAN NOT HAPPEN. you are complaining that goods are produced in low wages countries but you do not see the prosperity for the people who are buying this goods at the end.

in the same sentence you accept, that this works will be done more and more by robots in the future (what will happen for sure) but you do not see the advantage in that and you do not even think about a solution how a world can survive when human workers are not needet anymore. from WHOM shall they get the money?

but if you would be a bit vioneer and look for the advantages you would ask the following question:

why do we pay in pension systems?

why do we not pay into crowd funding or whatever and invest the money in this robots?
why do we later not rent this robots to the companies what replaced us for robots?

imagine: if you have just 1 million people spending 1 euro every day in such a fund how much money would be there within a year.

imagine HOW MANY companies do not have the capital to robotize their companies.

imagine HOW FUNNY would that be if you are part of a company what is made to replace you in your job with renting robots to your ex-boss
it will not be THE robot making your job it would be YOUR ROBOT !!!!

THIS is visioneering !!!!

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k0nr4d

We have a worker deficit in Poland, it's very hard to find staff - especially for menial jobs, in almost every industry. It's definitely easier to find a video editor vs a programmer (I got 25 applicants vs 2 for a coder). We have more Ukranians here then any other european country that's not Ukraine will have in the foreseeable future. Salaries have not been driven downwards, and I think that the whole worry in western europe about them is unfounded for the most part because simply not that many will go there and many will stay in Poland due to it's geographical proximity to UA and the small language barrier (an adult can speak relatively good polish after only a few months).

just a punk

The Ukrainian prostitutes are hot as hell and they are cheap as an air. Only 1/4 of them are HIV positive, so your guys have a good chance for an AIDS-safe sex in the EU

P.S. HIV is not a real problem if the infected person gets a treatment. You have a one chance a million to catch a virus from her/him. The problem is that Ukraine is a very poor country and there is no free HIV treatment therapy. A couple of months ago I have watched a show on "TV Rain" about AIDS and there were HIV-positive kids (all below 18 year old) from the Ukraine. One girl said she has a friend who is a heroine junky. She's 16 years old and works as a prostitute for many years. The the most important thing: she does not give a shit about her HIV status and refuses to take pills. So the virus activity in her blood is over any possible and impossible limits. As a reminder, she is a prostitute and does sex for money. I guess in her 16 she does not look like this, but very soon, she will...



This is how a regular young HIV-positive Ukrainian prostitute does look like:



Not so dangerous at all, right? I'd say she looks very pretty, but a normal man would not touch her even with a long stick... Are you ready, the EU guys?

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Sarn

Not only in Ukraine. But whores migrate in west and it soon stay they problem.
https://news.vice.com/article/russia...-crisis-levels

just a punk

Exactly. Every 2nd prostitute in Moscow is from the Ukraine (to be honest, I guess more). And course a heroine epidemic here is almost as serious as there. The problem is that now HIV is is not a problem of homosexuals and heroine addicts anymore. It starts spreading on straight 30-40 year old people via heterosexual contacts. The similar thing is awaiting the EU countries when the visa regime with Ukraine will be canceled.

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k0nr4d

You're acting as if western europe isn't already crawling with eastern european prostitutes

just a punk

I'm not "acting" at all ;) Your Eastern European prostitutes are already there (Polish, Czech, Slovakian, Baltic etc), but just try to imagine what will happen when a very poor country with a 45 million population will get a visa free regime with the EU. A country which is famous for super hot girls (hands down here), prostitution and the greatest in the world HIV epidemic.

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Paul Markham

Because they have gone to better paying EU countries where they hold down wages.

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Paul Markham

The EU from the outset has made it plain it will enlarge itself by taking in any country who wants to join. Now all that's left are those who will sponge off the richer ones, such as get companies to move where labour costs are low, bring workers in from low wage countries to hold down wages, etc. It will mean the few richer countries will have to fund the whole of the EU.

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crockett

Ahh so now you know how everyone in the US who didn't vote for Trump feels. Trump lost the majority vote and "establishment demoracy" elected him anyway...

Also your EU is working just like in the US, mostly rich populated states pay for all the dead beats. The dead beats are leech states that don't collect enough taxes to cover their own bills. Most of these dead beat states vote Republican...

klinton

many of them already have oligarch friend/s or already go to Saudis/ Qatar

Paul Markham

Those indexes don't change, they use the same products to gauge costs of living regardless. So your reply is bullshit. A lot of the price rises is due to this.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...rs-rics-survey

The state of the UK housing market in five charts




From the 10% who live at the top of the ladder. Think back to pre-WW1 days to see how it works. Do you think the owners of the large mansion houses worried about their workers not being able to buy enough?

A good example is a Chinese factory worker isn't buying the same amount of goods a US factory worker does. This never stops the bosses moving their factory and relying on the Chines to made goods to be sold in the US. And don't forget the money is now in China so sales in China rise, buying Chines produced goods. If they bought the equivalent value of US goods, there wouldn't be a trade gap.


Economics isn't about imagining what if.

Economics isn't about imagining what if.

Economics isn't about imagining what if. For me, as a boss, it would be my robot. For the worker who I sack, it would be his life on unemployment. Don't have to imagine that as it's happening.

Whose vision, certainly not the man who is made redundant.

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Paul Markham

Western Europe is crawling with Eastern European workers of all types. It holds down wages.

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Bladewire

I was thinking the exact same thing

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Sid70

Since I live in the EU I frequently fly to A'dam to fuck ND whores, every Ukrainian factory worker is gonna be able to do so very soon. Homoland, beware, here we come!

On the subject: that voting was NEVER meant to be anything official. It's like a fucking Budapest Memorandum.

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Sid70

Hard to imagine even . . . It's the end of EU as we know it. They sit butts tight waiting for June the 11th.

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ianmoone332000

So glad we voted out. Wish it wasnt 2 years of sorting things out though, id rather be out sooner. Let Germany pay Britain's contributions when we are gone. They are idiots anyway

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