crockett

If you owe someone money you can not pay off at any given moment, it means you are owned by the debt holder. You might be able to make your payments with out struggle but you still have a price tag on your head.

How does that make you feel to be owned by a mortgage payment, car payment, credit cards, business loans, ect..ect? How many of you can live debt free and be self sufficient? Self sufficient meaning you can live your life with out acquiring debt to others?

Bladewire

Indentured servitude to the government is real: federal student loans & tax debt

Servitude to banks & credit card lenders is worse but at least you can bankrupt it

"Indentured servants were men and women who signed a contract (also known as an indenture or a covenant) by which they agreed to work for a certain number of years in exchange for transportation to Virginia and, once they arrived, food, clothing, and shelter."

Are you working to provide yourself food, shelter & clothing?

crockett

Working to provide food, shelter & clothing is not really being owned by anyone. You are simply providing for your basic needs, basic needs required for your existence. If you require debt to cover those basic needs, like a home mortgage then you are under ownership or servitude as you put it.

I require no debt for my existence and I carry no debts, but it doesn't mean I don't have things or don't work or don't use credit cards for example(I just hold no balance). I can live fine from the profits of my business for example, but I do also sometimes take short term jobs. I think it's good to do actual work from time to time because it lets you learn new things, meet people and remember how much the daily grind sucks after about 3 months..

crockett

Now to add to this, there are other forms of ownership other than just debt. Example owning a home even if it's 100% paid for is a form of ownership on your freedom. Simply by owning that home, it means you are less free to do or go where you want for any amounts of time.

Possessions are their own form of slavery when you think about absolute freedom for example..

CurrentlySober

Alternatively, owning the home 100% means that you can fuck off whenever you choose and if you rent it out while you are away, you have a regular monthly income to fund your adventures elsewhere

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2 Kings 18:27

crockett

This is true, but not 100% as easy as it sounds. There is also a certain amount of risk involved with that like will the renter pay the rent while you are off fucking around, will they fuck shit up.. Will the AC unit go out and you get hosed by a repairman because you aren't there.. ect..ect..

IMO, that's still a lot of hassle for not a lot of extra money after you run into the common issues landlords run into. Unless of course you are renting out several income properties and letting a property management company run it for you. However that all comes with big expenses and to get to that point requires lots of debt or being independently wealthy and if you have that kind of money why bother with the hassles, just to fund going off and fucking about... There are much cheaper ways to make money than real estate.

CurrentlySober

I was thinking of a single home property that you live in, however yes, I was thinking about a management agency dealing with it on your behalf.

I have all my properties with an agent and they deal with EVERYTHING for me. It costs me ten percent of all rents, but it also guarantees me my rent should the tenant not pay, so in all a good deal...

Point being though, that if I didnt have other properties, and fancied fucking off for 6 months to travel, I'd rent out my own house and just let the agent handle it for me...

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2 Kings 18:27

Bladewire

Its a ball and chain. Every single person I know personally IRL regrets owning or gets fucked by owning or can't/hasn't bedn able to do something they wanted to do.

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crockett

I know what your saying, but it takes a bit of time and work to get to the point of multiple properties. I'm not really interested in chasing money anymore at least not at the moment, I'd rather just be able to go fuck off for however long I want to.. That's what Ive been doing the last 3-4 years now.. Just fucking off.

Now my only issue, is my money making is limited to me being here in the US. I can't say go fuck off to Europe, South America or the Caribbean and still make money while there. I can pretty much go anywhere in the US and still be making money, but not elsewhere.

I'm ok with that for the time being, because I still have some adventuring to do here in the US, but I'd like to tour around Europe at some point and maybe live on a sail boat for some time.

crockett

Yeah, I kinda think American Natives & the Gypsies had the right idea.. Don't own any land and just carry your home with you..

Barry-xlovecam

You are never free if you have any keys to your possessions.

Ask this guy ...

Struggle4Bucks

If you can't handle life that's ok man... just embrace it and don't be so devious about it...

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Half troll half amazing!

crockett

Life is what you make of it. What is devious about that? The simple fact is most people can not afford their lifestyle with out debt. Most can't even really afford it with the debt.. Look at our govt as prime example. Our govt can't afford to sustain it's self with out debt.. Is that how you handle life continually acquiring debt or being responsible and self sufficient?

nico-t

Crockett has finally reached the mental deepness of a 15 year old pothead. Congrats on this huge milestone in your psychological development

Hey it could be worse, brasshat still has the brain capacity of a 10 year old at 60 years old

slapass

Distorting reality for your own needs doesn't make it real. It is nice that you don't like debt and have worked this up to this. Just don't expect others to buy in.

As a sometimes lender, knowing the other party cannot repay you doesn't make you feel like a master but someone who got suckered.

Matt 26z

Struggle4Bucks

I wasn't even referring to the debt part...
If owning a debt-free house is allready too much of a burden for you you might want to find some professional help...

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Half troll half amazing!

crockett

You can try to claim different, but our entire society is built around indentured servitude. It's just made PC friendly and called debt. The entire western society is built around being in debt. You can pretend it's not, but that's what it is.

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"If Israelis don't want to be accused of being like the Nazis, they simply need to stop behaving like Nazis." - Norman Finkelstein

crockett

Nothing is debt free, there is always taxes..

But of course you would rather throw insults than add anything to the topic..

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"If Israelis don't want to be accused of being like the Nazis, they simply need to stop behaving like Nazis." - Norman Finkelstein

crockett

Sure thing polish boy.

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"If Israelis don't want to be accused of being like the Nazis, they simply need to stop behaving like Nazis." - Norman Finkelstein

Paul Markham

I learned my lesson the hard way about being in debt in the 70s. Since then never had a debt apart from a mortgage on my first house and I paid that off in 10 years.

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Paul Markham

What happens if the poor are the ones running up the debt and the rich the only ones who can keep the debt down?

The money the Bankers borrowed is being repaid by the Bankers in the profits they make. Austerity means cutting back on the debt.

You highlight why Labour will lose big time in the coming election. You still think it's pre-industrial revolution when a man's labour was a major factor in the finances of a country. today only the top 20% are able to pay enough taxes to keep the country from going bust. The higher one goes up the percentile ladder the more contribution they make to paying the bills the people demand.

Communism tried to create a system where everyone was more equal, it failed because people aren't equal and they should be rewarded for their effort. Today the problems are worse because the people demand cheap goods made by near slave labour, rather than pay their fellow countrymen a living wage.

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Paul Markham

Western society has grown lazy and over indulged. Most demand cheap goods made by near slave labour rather than pay their fellow man a decent wage. Even goods and services that are in the West the goal is to cut staff and lower wages to provide a cheaper service or product. With no thought to the effect on others, society and the long-term debt it creates in terms of government debt.

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JesseQuinn

all human societies, at all times

Margaret Atwood wrote a really good book exploring debt, if you haven't read it yet it's def worth checking out

Payback: Debt and the Shadow Side of Wealth | Quill and Quire

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throwing molotav cocktails at the precinct

pimpmaster9000

its called "paul markham-ing"

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pimpmaster9000

what the OP is forgetting to mention here is prison labor...it is one of the most popular forms of slavery in the USA...

quote:
American slavery was technically abolished in 1865, but a loophole in the 13th Amendment has allowed it to continue ?as a punishment for crimes? well into the 21st century. Not surprisingly, corporations have lobbied for a broader and broader definition of ?crime? in the last 150 years. As a result, there are more (mostly dark-skinned) people performing mandatory, essentially unpaid, hard labor in America today than there were in 1830.

The vast majority ? 86 percent ? of prisoners have been locked up for non-violent, victimless crimes, many of them drug-related.

With 5 percent of the world?s population and 25 percent of the world?s prison population, the United States has the largest incarcerated population in the world. No other society in history has imprisoned more of its own citizens. There are half a million more prisoners in the U.S. than in China, which has five times our population.

land of the free

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Relic

You're exploitative op

crockett

Most people have this endless need to buy shit even if they don't need it. Like buying a new cell phone every year when a 4 year old phone would still do just about everything the new one does.

How do they buy these phones? With debt, they sign 2 year agreement and pay two times as much every month for their service plan than it would cost if they had their own phone.

Steve Rupe

Me for one. Cash and carry is the way I roll and has been that way for a number of years.

BlackCrayon

sure but if you have to live in a van to achieve this, i don't know if you're really winning.

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you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

Bladewire

It not surprising a self proclaimed Redhat "intellectual" offers absolutely nothing of value on topic. Just insults.

Nico-T stop posting. Your insults don't hurt anyone and you look stupid wasting your time

We know you don't like America or Americans and love Putin, Erdogan, Assad & Trump (as long as Trump does what Putin says).

Why was your first identity here "Polish Aristocrat" if you're Dutch born & bred like you say? Why did you change your name to Nico-T?

crockett

Who said anything about have to.. I'm winning because I do what I want to do with my life.

Maybe winning for you is sitting inside the same room day after day doing the exact same thing day after day like a factory worker with a routine..

Hey if that's winning for you, good for you.. It's not for me.. I like to see new things visit different places, explore my world. Make s no sense to me, to live in the same place, when I can go to any city or place and live and it cost me next to nothing to do so.

If I wanted another house I'd buy one..

BlackCrayon

its something that would be fun to do for a while but not for a lifetime. i love to travel but typically prefer more room and amenities than a camper van provides. i have kids so its not something i would consider doing at this point in my life.

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you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

SEXMEX

most of us have the same situation, the thinking heads don't give a shit for the people in between

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Bladewire

So true

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Bladewire

But it's something that interests you right?

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crockett

Its just a different mindset, no different than living on a sail boat but a bit more convenient.

For myself, the camper van is just a place to sleep, cook, stash my stuff and hang out when I don't feel like doing anything.

I don't park it at some RV lot and toss a few lawn chairs out and sit there all day. I'm always out doing stuff.

When you have a house, the house just sucks you in. Pretty much your entire life revolves around your house. You go to work then rush to get home to sit inside a room in your house, watching TV or browsing the internet. Maybe you go out to hit a bar or eat dinner but then it's right back to the house.

For myself I can just go wherever and I'm not worried about running back to a house. If I'm in CO and decide I want to go see thee Devils Tower in WY or the Black Hills in SD, I just go.. I don't have to plan it or worry about where I will stay or pack up stuff. I just go.

It's a whole different level of freedom than what living a house let's you have.

The Devils Tower is awesome btw, one of my favorite places to see. There is nothing like it anywhere else in the world.

nico-t

This must be a new record even for you: literally everything you claim about me in the post above is simply not true

fair & balanced shill

arock10

Glad to see being too stupid to use debt or understand it is a bipartisan issue. Finally!

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Sup

crockett

Its amazing isn't it...

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"If Israelis don't want to be accused of being like the Nazis, they simply need to stop behaving like Nazis." - Norman Finkelstein