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Discuss what's fucking going on, and which programs are best and worst. One-time "program" announcements from "established" webmasters are allowed. |
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04-04-2017, 08:46 PM | #1 |
l8r
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,501
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Sponsor Shaving - Age old discussion worth having again
You have 2 sponsors. You are sending basically the same traffic in the same niche, quantity and quality to each sponsor.
The first sponsor converts well and you are making $x,xxx.xx dollars a month on a consistent basis. The second sponsor doesn't convert well and you are making $xx.xx dollars a month. It is revealed that Sponsor 1 is cheating. They are doing a 20% shave on payout. Sponsor 2 is rock solid and the most honest sponsors in the adult space. They are the type that would go out of business before they would lie to you or shave their affiliates. So, what are you going to do? Are you, on principal, going to stop sending to sponsor 1 because they are shaving and start sending all traffic to sponsor 2? Or are you going to continue to send traffic to where you are making the most for it? Discuss. . |
04-04-2017, 09:38 PM | #2 |
Colonizer
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Your mom's front hole
Posts: 37,631
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Hate to say it but I'd send it wherever it makes the most money, provided I was getting paid weekly.
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“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. ― Calvin Coolidge |
04-04-2017, 11:16 PM | #3 |
Too old to care
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws.
Posts: 52,943
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Send traffic to the sites that make the most money and grow up.
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04-05-2017, 03:07 AM | #4 |
VIP
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 22,104
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Of course (almost) everyone would send their traffic to the first sponsor. The money is all that matters at the end.
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04-05-2017, 03:12 AM | #5 |
So Fucking Banned
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,300
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Affiliate programs that falsify stats deserve hacking.
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04-05-2017, 03:42 AM | #6 |
SO FUCKING SCAMMED
Industry Role:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1,257
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If you're looking to invest any serious efforts going forward then it's a no-brainer for me, that is if the variables remain the same in the future, sponsor 2 all day long.
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04-05-2017, 03:45 AM | #7 |
Confirmed Fetishist
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fetishland
Posts: 11,472
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it's not regulated market, affiliates are located worldwide and can't do shit, $100 here, $1000 there and programs get away with it.
just stick with who makes you more money. |
04-05-2017, 03:50 AM | #8 |
I make pixels work
Industry Role:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: I live here...
Posts: 24,386
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I remember when we would vilify a sponsor that shaved around here.... now the mass census is to send money to the cheaters and grow up over helping the virtuous program grow.
Probably the main reason I have 95% phased out.
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04-05-2017, 04:00 AM | #9 |
Confirmed User
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,903
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no brainer... send to the highest epc. If at some point the shaver falls below the other epc, switch up.
I don't actually think there are too many programs that shave these days (though am certainly not naive enough to think none do), but if they skim and I still get more epc than anywhere else, that's where my traffic is going |
04-05-2017, 04:21 AM | #10 |
feeding the wolves
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: between sand and stars in Jamaica
Posts: 5,364
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If sponsor one was found to be dishonest I wouldn't want to work with them, whether I was being negatively impacted by the unethical actions or not. shady ish has no place in my life
I'd drop option one and start testing new options to replace it. would stick with option 2 during the transition. if I liked and believed in the site I'd prob tweak things to see if there was anything I could do to raise sales on my end of things
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throwing molotav cocktails at the precinct |
04-05-2017, 04:29 AM | #11 |
Registered User
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Online
Posts: 64
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Point the hackers to every adult dating company.
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04-05-2017, 05:37 AM | #12 |
<&(©¿©)&>
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 47,883
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how do you know that sponsor #2 isn't even more dishonest than sponsor #1?
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04-05-2017, 05:42 AM | #13 |
Big Fucking hahahaha
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Posts: 1,769
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Best sentence EVER
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"As pornographers we must act responsibly! ;))" - Nickatilynx Send traffic to the sites that make the most money and grow up. ~ Paul Markham PUT PAUL IN THE HALL |
04-05-2017, 06:44 AM | #14 | |
Confirmed User
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Quote:
Basic rule of thumb? If your traffic converts better for one program/site than another? stick with it. It's not because one is shaving, its because one converts better with YOUR traffic and sales practices. Run with it.
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04-05-2017, 06:44 AM | #15 |
It's 42
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Global
Posts: 18,083
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Start your own program and then you will have first count on the money.
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04-05-2017, 08:33 AM | #16 | ||
l8r
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,501
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Quote:
You know it because that is how premises work ;p Quote:
Please see my comments above regarding "premise". . |
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04-05-2017, 08:34 AM | #17 |
l8r
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,501
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04-05-2017, 09:31 AM | #18 |
It's 42
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Global
Posts: 18,083
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Internet affiliates have no direct contact with the customers' acquisition and lifetime spend e.g.; Affiliates don't get the customer to sign on the dotted line and take the deal back to the office. Affiliates do not process the payment transactions. In a word, most of this shaving stuff is supposition.
Trust is a factor and you have to go where the money comes in. There is nothing anyone can say that will appease the doubts really. The other problem is that unless you make a large number of sales every day your selling pattern will run in streaks -- regardless of what you are selling -- this is a reality of sales. |
04-05-2017, 09:33 AM | #19 |
FUBAR the ORIGINATOR
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Excellent idea
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04-05-2017, 09:38 AM | #20 |
Too lazy to set a custom title
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i don't think aff program do that, i'm so innocent ?
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04-05-2017, 10:31 AM | #21 |
l8r
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Join Date: Oct 2002
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04-05-2017, 10:33 AM | #22 |
Supermodel
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yes..............
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04-05-2017, 10:36 AM | #23 | |
StraightBro
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Monarch Beach, CA USA
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
Nothing against you personally OneHungLo it's a particular capitalist mindset that is akin to slash & burn deforestation or to one eating their feet because they can't wait for dinner. |
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04-05-2017, 10:42 AM | #24 |
www.EngineFood.com
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,698
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Release the Kraken!!!
You know how many clicks you sent, you know how much money you were paid per click. You know the cost of each campaign. Do the math. It really is that simple. If someone shaves 2/3rds of your sales and still manages to pay you 43 cents per click overall anyway, while someone who is completely honest shaves nothing and pays you 6 cents a click... send your traffic to the one paying you 43 cents. |
04-05-2017, 10:43 AM | #25 | |
StraightBro
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Monarch Beach, CA USA
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
Affiliates even promote stolen content sites for quick profit, strangling industry growth further. |
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04-05-2017, 10:44 AM | #26 |
www.EngineFood.com
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,698
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Incidentally... anyone who was sending to a very high paying offer and wont send to it anymore because you believe its possible that very high payout is after a few sales were shaved... please send me the name of the sponsor so I can replace your traffic in their inventory.
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04-05-2017, 11:21 AM | #27 | |
feeding the wolves
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: between sand and stars in Jamaica
Posts: 5,364
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Quote:
not drama llama supposition as to 'shave' I figured you'd weigh in here as it's clear from past threads this is a topic about which you have passionate opinions. which is cool, the metrics you bring to the topic are super-helpful when parsing value amongst sponsors genuinely curious as to your thought process in posing the following: you run a service which has as one of its standards of inclusion: "The product or service must be provided in useful, complete and working condition up to the quality standards promised as part of the tour, sales pitch or marketing materials." meaning honesty in biz practice and not fucking around with people. following through on terms presented. why should affs or anyone else on the b2b side of things expect or tolerate a different, lower standard? genuine bafflement without a point to prove as aff stuff is small portion of my overall income so don't have a significant stake in the debate. just don't understand why anyone would want to associate with peeps comfortable with dishonest practice just cuz they make you money. like they'd be any less likely to fuck over you massively if they could rationalize it? or their website clients? Angelou stated it best: "When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time" enjoying reading everyone's POV's, do honestly see some merit in each perspective. just for the bottom-line-above-all'ers don yo flea collars =)
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throwing molotav cocktails at the precinct |
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04-05-2017, 04:52 PM | #28 | |
www.EngineFood.com
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Quote:
Jesse, In business like anything else you must make decisions based on the information you have available to you. As an affiliate you do have direct access to some information, and you will never have access to other information. Fortunately, the information you need is the information you do have. Affiliate marketing is an auction and always has been. Sponsors compete for your traffic by making offers. Novices, hobbyists and idiots compare the offers. People who make a living in this business ignore the offers almost entirely and compare the results instead. When someone offers you a set of terms... that's what they say they will do. When they offer you up to a certain amount per sale, that's what they say they will pay. However you will never know if they will actually pay you when the bill comes due, and you can never know if they shaved your sales or did some other thing outside your POV that is negative. On the other hand, here is what you do know..... you know if they paid you the last time. You know exactly how much they paid you. You know exactly how much traffic you sent to them. You know if your traffic got fucked (because you should be doing test joins and cancels etc on your own). You know what the campaign cost you to run because you should be tracking your own expenses. You know how quickly the payment arrived. You know what other offers are out there competing with this one. Based on that information, if a sponsor isn't damaging your brand or your traffic, and is paying you quickly every time and is paying you the most... the rest of the analysis boils down to conspiracy theories, guesses, rumors, and sour grapes. If you don't like the business model, that's great... neither did I... so like many others I decided to launch my own sites. That's always an option. You can also do your own due diligence and make whatever ethics based decisions you want.... but at the end of the day, you will still be dealing with the information you do have... and the information you don't have. Decisions based on Net EPC are the best ones you can make based on the information you do have available as an affiliate. That has always been true, and will remain true. |
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04-05-2017, 04:56 PM | #29 | |||||
Confirmed User
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04-05-2017, 06:01 PM | #30 | ||
feeding the wolves
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: between sand and stars in Jamaica
Posts: 5,364
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Quote:
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that's not the scenario presented in sarettah's op though. he's referring to a hypothetical situation wherein one discovers that a company with which one shares a lucrative relationship has been proven to be knowingly engaging in dishonest behavior aka unethical practice. thus the question (as I see it, anyways) involves an additional factor not found in the scenario you often present. from where I'm standing your answers thus far address a different question based on a different set of facts. the additional factor here is not just whether one currently earn the most per click with said sponsor in a haze of gossip, but whether one chooses to continue to work with people who have been proven to engage in shady ish. I was curious as to your stance on that. that's all. anyways, interesting topic
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throwing molotav cocktails at the precinct |
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04-06-2017, 06:55 AM | #31 |
Confirmed User
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Posts: 1,511
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I'll chime in here because I see an alternative thrown around about starting your own sites.
If you are looking to start your own program, HIT ME UP! I'll get you into NATS! Carry on... |
04-06-2017, 06:58 AM | #32 |
So Fucking Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Tokyo Red Light District
Posts: 2,145
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Anyone ever see a sponsor try to blackhat their affiliates?
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04-06-2017, 09:09 AM | #33 |
Confirmed User
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Location: International Gypsy
Posts: 819
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Well sarettah , you know what I'd do ;)
you've seen it There is only one stat that matters....... = $$$$$$$$$ Now stop trolling me ;)
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