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Old 07-11-2016, 07:18 AM   #101
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100 posts of why paysites won't change.

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Originally Posted by Shap View Post
That's interesting because I've never felt pirate sites were a threat. I know they are huge but I've often felt they cater to a different group of users. I may be naive and completely wrong but my gut just always told me pirate site users were never going to be members.

We actually had a situation for a while where the pirate sites actually listed our updates BEFORE us. That was not good.
Nobody regularly consumes porn to pass the time. They're all potential buyers.

The excuse of them never being customers, never made sense. Now we know that people downloading or viewing porn are potential customers we converted into freeloaders.
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:21 AM   #102
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I know some people have questioned my reasons for bringing up a thread/topic like this. My main reason is a brainstorm session really. There is definitely still money to be made. Just running things as they've always been run isn't the way.

Your idea is great. There is definitely something in that. There has to be some sort of advancement in the delivering of content (maybe not necessarily always on your own website) and the billing of content (different price points, different areas you can buy it again not only on your website).
Mutt's suggesting PPV. How did that work out the first time it was tried?
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:31 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Paul Markham View Post
Mutt's suggesting PPV. How did that work out the first time it was tried?
From his responses it seems Shap already has his mind set on a certain path and is looking for affirmation of adding a lot of new functionality to paysites while reducing membership fees, preferably lower than $10 it looks like.
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:55 AM   #104
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They should give out free gifts to members ;)
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:13 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Paul Markham View Post
Mutt's suggesting PPV. How did that work out the first time it was tried?
This is different though than the conventional PPV. The 1 click and reach being the big difference here. Makes perfect sense and would be a big change.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:27 AM   #106
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This is different though than the conventional PPV. The 1 click and reach being the big difference here. Makes perfect sense and would be a big change.

Of course, two clicks is far too much for a surfer to figure out. </sarcasm>

One click to what, biller or deducting money from a pre-deposited pot?

Pornhub works with one click.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:30 AM   #107
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Of course, two clicks is far too much for a surfer to figure out. </sarcasm>

One click to what, biller or deducting money from a pre-deposited pot?

Pornhub works with one click.
Figure out what a 1 click means in this context and come back please
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:36 AM   #108
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From his responses it seems Shap already has his mind set on a certain path and is looking for affirmation of adding a lot of new functionality to paysites while reducing membership fees, preferably lower than $10 it looks like.
$10 is no longer profitable unless the content is free for the site owner. Shooting 10 scenes, worth signing up for, will cost between $2,000 solo to $20,000 BG. Yes I know people will churn out garbage for less

At $10 a sign-up, taking all the other expenses traffic, servers, equipment, etc. That means the site has to sign up 400 to 4,000. For every 10 videos.

Back in the boom days, 95% of the industry was buying exclusive cheap crap because that's all they could afford. Of the remaining 5% a lot of them were started by people with an in-house content producer.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:41 AM   #109
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Oh how I enjoy posting this.

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Old 07-11-2016, 08:50 AM   #110
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Figure out what a 1 click means in this context and come back please
So tell us what it means. 1 click to what? Having fancy names for a process doesn't make it work.

Quote:
The big tubes should have one-click processing, if a viewer wants to buy the full scene in the highest quality format the producer makes available he pays $3.99 or whatever price the producer chooses. If the viewer is a big fan of the producer's work he can pay a monthly recurring fee to get all updates, $9.99/14.99/19.99 whatever the producer chooses - producer gets 50% and paid out by the tube site.
Why would a Tube site pay the producer 50% when they can force the producer to allow them to put it into a members area as part of the deal to display the clips on the free side?

Wouldn't the producer be better off getting the fan to his own site?

As I said, $10 is good if the content is free and Tubes can make it so by binding producers to a contract.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:50 AM   #111
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Figured so, carry on!!
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:59 AM   #112
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How much more content needs to be produced? We are not talking about a finite consumable story-based product which leaves the viewer wanting to know what happens next. The average viewer needs a few minutes of visual stimulation and then moves on with their lives.

I think the oversaturation of content caused by the industry converting content production into a commodity is as much to blame as tube sites.
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Old 07-11-2016, 09:23 AM   #113
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Price point is key. I've become used to Netflix at <$10 a month. That price point is a no brainer for me and I don't mind going 2 or 3 months without using it (as I just did these past 3 months). Once it goes over $10 (esp towards $19) I'd have to be using it regularly for me to justify keeping it. As a family we don't use it enough so I'd cancel.

Apps are the same. I rarely will pay for an app. I have to be super motivated and interested in the app or it's a lego kids game that I know my boys will love. Besides that I'm not keen on spending $$ for an app. Why? Because the app environment has taught me what is worth spending and what isn't. There are apps that I used to buy as software and pay $50, $100 or $200 for. But in the app environment they are now worth <10 and usually <5.

Music I'll buy from itunes store without every researching an alternative. It's just how I buy music.

I never buy movies.

Tv Shows I'll research when they'll be on cable. If I really can't get it within let's say a month I'll then go to itunes and buy it. If Itunes and Amazon do a geo block and try to stop me from seeing it for 6 months time (ie like they did with Ballers) then fuck them I'll download illegally. If I'm buying on itunes to watch on apple tv i'll buy HD version but if I'm going to watch on my ipad i'll buy SD version.

Just to give you insight into my buying decisions.
What I love about your post is how it demonstrates how even smart people (like you Shap) can have kooky buying habits. If you pay $9.99 and do not even use Netflix but once every 3 months then guess what? You're paying $29.95 for Netflix. LOL The magic price point!

But again, companies can only afford to charge $10 if they are massive. Think Wal-Mart.

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Figured so, carry on!!
Classic right? I don't try to explain things to Paul. His interest in these things are purely intellectual these days. He has no skin in the game so his perspective is...classic.
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Old 07-11-2016, 10:13 AM   #114
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From his responses it seems Shap already has his mind set on a certain path and is looking for affirmation of adding a lot of new functionality to paysites while reducing membership fees, preferably lower than $10 it looks like.
I know you don't believe this but I don't have an agenda here. Just having a conversation about it. It may surprise you but I'm not the selfish manipulating bastard you have me pegged as. If anything I'm the complete opposite. I started the thread as a brainstorm to see where it goes. No secret plans behind it.
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Old 07-11-2016, 10:15 AM   #115
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100 posts of why paysites won't change.



Nobody regularly consumes porn to pass the time. They're all potential buyers.

The excuse of them never being customers, never made sense. Now we know that people downloading or viewing porn are potential customers we converted into freeloaders.
That's not true. I never have and never will pay for porn. No amount of convincing will change that. I'll consume it for free but the second it's not free I won't consume it.
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Old 07-11-2016, 10:17 AM   #116
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This is different though than the conventional PPV. The 1 click and reach being the big difference here. Makes perfect sense and would be a big change.
This is one case where those who get it get it. I saw exactly what mutt meant immediately. Makes sense. We've always limited our thinking to the idea we have to charge for our content on our website instead of other ways to charge for it ie on the tube itself.
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Old 07-11-2016, 10:20 AM   #117
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This is one case where those who get it get it. I saw exactly what mutt meant immediately. Makes sense. We've always limited our thinking to the idea we have to charge for our content on our website instead of other ways to charge for it ie on the tube itself.
Drop me a line, people are on this already in a way.
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Old 07-11-2016, 10:29 AM   #118
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This is one case where those who get it get it. I saw exactly what mutt meant immediately. Makes sense. We've always limited our thinking to the idea we have to charge for our content on our website instead of other ways to charge for it ie on the tube itself.
Well, the issue has always been on the tube side. It's their website after all so doing a one-click upsell means splitting revenue (equally?) and, until recently, this has been resisted. But as the industry changes I think more tubes will be open to this.

Personally, I think tubes should act like cable providers do now. In other words, strike partnership deals with trusted paysites to not only do what Mutt suggests but also help with production costs. Paysite owners would need to adjust their thinking in terms of margins and costs but I think this is the future for some companies. Does Mind Geek do one click upsells for Fake Taxi? They should.
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Old 07-11-2016, 10:34 AM   #119
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I'll throw one at you with regard to monetization;

What about a Porn Tube site with micropayments to content producers or providers?

what if; Each time a full length vid is viewed in HD quality $0.20 is deducted from the tube member's wallet and 50/60///90% is sent to the member/seller providing that content's wallet -- the seller cashes out like an affiliate $50-$100 minimum ....
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Old 07-11-2016, 10:57 AM   #120
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I'll throw one at you with regard to monetization;

What about a Porn Tube site with micropayments to content producers or providers?

what if; Each time a full length vid is viewed in HD quality $0.20 is deducted from the tube member's wallet and 50/60///90% is sent to the member/seller providing that content's wallet -- the seller cashes out like an affiliate $50-$100 minimum ....
a la XVideos or Pornhub Premium?
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Old 07-11-2016, 11:11 AM   #122
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a la XVideos or Pornhub Premium?
If that is how they are paying to content producers now? by the view -- then yes...

Micro payment is not new -- how it cam be financed is. Forget about 3rd party processors. You can load a wallet with ACH for next to nothing (or nothing) initiated direct from your online bank in the US. https://www.dwolla.com/
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Old 07-11-2016, 11:35 AM   #123
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I know you don't believe this but I don't have an agenda here. Just having a conversation about it. It may surprise you but I'm not the selfish manipulating bastard you have me pegged as. If anything I'm the complete opposite. I started the thread as a brainstorm to see where it goes. No secret plans behind it.
I didn't mean to butthurt you Shap.

How are we supposed to trust a former tube owner whose avatar is Darth Vader?


Seriously though you started asking for peoples ideas this month last year in another thread. You and I chatted via email which was cool. Nobody has seen any results come from the effort before and here's a new thread asking for ideas for paysites.

Where did I peg you as a selfish manipulating bastard though? I don't see you that way.

I try to challenge people sometimes so I can learn and see where they're coming from, it's me being passionate, not meant as a negative. Now if I tell you how I see you you're gonna take it a bad way haha
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Old 07-11-2016, 11:37 AM   #124
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I think the money went to dating..
(Also cams and other things that a regular affiliate can't make money from these days..)
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Old 07-11-2016, 11:48 AM   #125
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I think the money went to dating..
(Also cams and other things that a regular affiliate can't make money from these days..)
What is a regular affiliate?
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Old 07-11-2016, 11:56 AM   #126
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What is a regular affiliate?
Like me I guess..
(I thought about and I don't really know. I guess the difference between a freelancer making money with ref links and a company or LLC with money? I also didn't mean cams didn't make affiliates money, I worded that weird..)

Like the problem with people complaining about tubes. Nowadays much less people search on SEs for what they're looking for or going to TGPs/blogs/MGPs/etc and instead are going straight to a type-in tube to see what they want and if they do find the video on an SE, chances are it's a video on one of those big tubes..
If they buy a membership for something they like, the tubes and the company will get a cut of the sale, no middle man.
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Old 07-11-2016, 12:48 PM   #127
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"Content. You can't have an off day. Every update has to be SPECTACULAR!"

When you find that SPECTACULAR porn scene. Be sure to let everyone know. Because it's almost impossible unless the producer has money to burn.

Recorded porn is the same as it was in 1980 and the introduction of the VCR. Private had some awesome content, flew people to Bali to shoot movies. How many sites today can afford to shoot SPECTACULAR porn?

Still no matter how SPECTACULAR it is, it will be on Pornhub or Pirate Bay the day after it's released.

http://gfy.com/21014152-post82.html

This is the only option there is and will be a tough job to get it right. All other options are closed. Those who want to shoot me down, do it with a new option. The rest just keep working hard and making money.

holy shit! markham is still alive????
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:30 PM   #128
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Classic right? I don't try to explain things to Paul. His interest in these things are purely intellectual these days. He has no skin in the game so his perspective is...classic.
As someone who has no skin in the cost of producing content, your views are biased. With that said I admire your business model, picking up old sites that have been exhausted by the owners and squeezing the last out of them. Very much like what I do with my old content.

This thread is about new ideas to move forward, seeing how paysites can adapt to reap more paying customers.
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:32 PM   #129
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That's not true. I never have and never will pay for porn. No amount of convincing will change that. I'll consume it for free but the second it's not free I won't consume it.
How many times a week do you jerk off to porn?

I find it strange that a person who would never buy, is looking for ways to sell porn.
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:34 PM   #130
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This is one case where those who get it get it. I saw exactly what mutt meant immediately. Makes sense. We've always limited our thinking to the idea we have to charge for our content on our website instead of other ways to charge for it ie on the tube itself.
Pornhub already does it. According to some posters and lawyers, without the permission of the content owners.

Did another tube site set up a rev share with content owners on views?
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:39 PM   #131
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Well, the issue has always been on the tube side. It's their website after all so doing a one-click upsell means splitting revenue (equally?) and, until recently, this has been resisted. But as the industry changes I think more tubes will be open to this.

Personally, I think tubes should act like cable providers do now. In other words, strike partnership deals with trusted paysites to not only do what Mutt suggests but also help with production costs. Paysite owners would need to adjust their thinking in terms of margins and costs but I think this is the future for some companies. Does Mind Geek do one click upsells for Fake Taxi? They should.
Why should the big Tubes start paying out for content on mass?

Maybe a deal with JKT of Fake Taxi, Met-Art level. But with sites that are just glad to get a bit of traffic????

As for helping with production costs.
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:42 PM   #132
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I think the money went to dating..
(Also cams and other things that a regular affiliate can't make money from these days..)
Not really. Mainstream Dating isn't porn.

Affiliates, ex-site owners, etc. Have gone to Dating are other online businesses. Many have left the business altogether.

I know if I had to work I would never be shooting porn. There are far more profitable ways to earn a living.
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:48 PM   #133
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holy shit! markham is still alive????
Alive and kicking. Retired 8 years ago. Still selling content but it's only to keep me busy. Private pensions are my main income.

Spend my days walking the dogs, cooking, reading, watching TV and gloating over tragic attempts to earn money on a boat that long sailed.

After 10 years of listening to people tell me, I knew nothing. Karma is sweet.

Still not sure what the one click sale is about.
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:49 PM   #134
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Pornhub already does it. According to some posters and lawyers, without the permission of the content owners.

Did another tube site set up a rev share with content owners on views?
PH is not doing this.
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:50 PM   #135
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Not really. Mainstream Dating isn't porn.

Affiliates, ex-site owners, etc. Have gone to Dating are other online businesses. Many have left the business altogether.

I know if I had to work I would never be shooting porn. There are far more profitable ways to earn a living.
That's true, but sometimes adult dating can be very similar to porn: People watching people getting laid vs people trying to get laid..

It's great for supplemental income for adult webmasters, too, even though it might be considered mainstream.
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Old 07-11-2016, 02:25 PM   #136
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Why does Netflix get 12.99 (now) a month subscriptions when you can view all kinds ( of generally bad quality [bad screen cuts, chipmunk voices, obvious display screens being videoed with a webcam (LOL)] ) movies, including recently released, full length movies?

People are willing to pay for good content -- free pirated tube clips are better somehow or good enough for a fast wank; fap,fap,fap -- zip? If that is the case -- move on.
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:10 PM   #137
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How many times a week do you jerk off to porn?

I find it strange that a person who would never buy, is looking for ways to sell porn.
Too many hahahahhahaha
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Old 07-11-2016, 06:32 PM   #138
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$10 is no longer profitable unless the content is free for the site owner. Shooting 10 scenes, worth signing up for, will cost between $2,000 solo to $20,000 BG. Yes I know people will churn out garbage for less
Explain Zishy. Zishy - Real Girl Mischief
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:18 PM   #139
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Mostly non-nude models & no videos. Probably run's it on a $80 a month ssd vps server. It's a great idea !! Just like any other niche that we are trying to hit, I'm sure there are a lot of guys out there that like the tease that pics offer over the visual overload that videos give them. Pics can sell! 20% of of our members download more picture sets than videos!

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Old 07-11-2016, 08:22 PM   #140
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Why does Netflix get 12.99 (now) a month subscriptions when you can view all kinds ( of generally bad quality [bad screen cuts, chipmunk voices, obvious display screens being videoed with a webcam (LOL)] ) movies, including recently released, full length movies?

People are willing to pay for good content -- free pirated tube clips are better somehow or good enough for a fast wank; fap,fap,fap -- zip? If that is the case -- move on.
Youtube & porn tubes have a huge problem that Netflix, HBO GO, and porn paysites don't have, and people are willing to pay not to experience. I know you know too, please don't vocalize it here.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:52 PM   #141
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As someone who has no skin in the cost of producing content, your views are biased. With that said I admire your business model, picking up old sites that have been exhausted by the owners and squeezing the last out of them. Very much like what I do with my old content.

This thread is about new ideas to move forward, seeing how paysites can adapt to reap more paying customers.
Actually Paul my websites run the gamut from 'dead' sites (no updates) to recycling older content to shooting brand-new content in 4K. However I myself do not handle the cost of production, the content producers who provide me the content do. (I also purchase content.)

No, with my business model it's more akin to that of a Hollywood agent, meaning take a % from each site and, altogether, it pays off big time. Some sites do killer biz, some so-so and some no biz at all. But TOGETHER it (my Network) packs a wallop and makes bank.
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:42 AM   #142
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Actually Paul my websites run the gamut from 'dead' sites (no updates) to recycling older content to shooting brand-new content in 4K. However I myself do not handle the cost of production, the content producers who provide me the content do. (I also purchase content.)

No, with my business model it's more akin to that of a Hollywood agent, meaning take a % from each site and, altogether, it pays off big time. Some sites do killer biz, some so-so and some no biz at all. But TOGETHER it (my Network) packs a wallop and makes bank.
Can you point us to the sites that are shot in 4K and updated regularly from the income they earn on Porn Nerd? The New Adventures of The Porn Nerd - Free Tour - Real Amateur Fun!

I see you don't have the cost of producing content.

I have no doubt your network makes you a living and I admire you for what you're doing. But it's not the way forward. You have no skin in the future and paysites improving conversions and profits. In fact, you make more money with them failing and people allowing you to pick their sites up for a revshare deal.
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:43 AM   #143
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PH is not doing this.
I was talking about PH having a Premium area. As for them selling on a 1 click, 1 scene basis. Why should they if it risks the monthly membership sale?
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:45 AM   #144
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That's true, but sometimes adult dating can be very similar to porn: People watching people getting laid vs people trying to get laid..

It's great for supplemental income for adult webmasters, too, even though it might be considered mainstream.
Paysites are sites with recorded porn. Dating is for people looking for a real relationship, if only for the night. It is a great supplement and for many has replaced porn income.
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:46 AM   #145
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Too many hahahahhahaha
Then you would a buyer of porn if there was no free porn. Pre-Internet you had little option but to buy.
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:49 AM   #146
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I don't have to, it explains itself.

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Mostly non-nude models & no videos. Probably run's it on a $80 a month ssd vps server. It's a great idea !! Just like any other niche that we are trying to hit, I'm sure there are a lot of guys out there that like the tease that pics offer over the visual overload that videos give them. Pics can sell! 20% of of our members download more picture sets than videos!

It might be the future for most models.
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Old 07-12-2016, 01:13 AM   #147
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People are willing to pay for good content -- free pirated tube clips are better somehow or good enough for a fast wank; fap,fap,fap -- zip? If that is the case -- move on.


Tubes are better than paysites. Girls working on their own are better than Third World studio girls, so what's left?

People have to face facts the online porn business is, for most, a dead end. They won't be increasing their income and while they should maintain it, they have to adapt or die. Look outside porn for their long term living.

There are opportunities for people who can create, market and sell. For webmasters who can only dump traffic, the future is bleak. This is what happens with every new industry after the gold rush days when anyone can pick up nuggets, the big boys take over and dominate. The yield's not only smaller, the big boys suck up most of what's left.

Develop products that are real, have meaning and empathy with consumers. This is easy for those who understand why someone buys a product. What their needs are, what will trigger them to buy and what will bring them back for more. If you need some examples, look at the top Youtubers. This is the route to take, it can be done for porn even though if the models scenes are on a Tube they will get the lions share of the traffic.

Or drop porn and go to dating, or flipping burgers. Now's not the time to try to reinvent porn. And the suggestions so far prove that.
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Old 07-12-2016, 01:18 AM   #148
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Big tubes can never have processing (eg the 1click idea), there is too much content that is not allowed by the card schemes. A lot of big tubes got burned already when they had the premium on a subdomain of their main domain.

That's why it's made so clear that you are leaving the site and go to another site.



Most of the 'premium' versions of tubes are nothing more than paysites with DVD content and AC whitelabels/channels. They have nothing to do with the content on the tubes itself.

When you click watch HD or see on Premium the chance that the video is actually there after you pay is very small. It's just another way to get people to signup for recurring memberships.
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Old 07-12-2016, 02:12 AM   #149
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Then you would a buyer of porn if there was no free porn. Pre-Internet you had little option but to buy.
With Facebook,Instagram and snapchat even if porn went away today's youth has plenty to jerk off to. Porn isn't only down because of tubes. With social media you get so much more content of people you know and don't know.
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Old 07-12-2016, 02:29 AM   #150
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I didn't mean to butthurt you Shap.

How are we supposed to trust a former tube owner whose avatar is Darth Vader?


Seriously though you started asking for peoples ideas this month last year in another thread. You and I chatted via email which was cool. Nobody has seen any results come from the effort before and here's a new thread asking for ideas for paysites.

Where did I peg you as a selfish manipulating bastard though? I don't see you that way.

I try to challenge people sometimes so I can learn and see where they're coming from, it's me being passionate, not meant as a negative. Now if I tell you how I see you you're gonna take it a bad way haha
Cool.

Let's discuss this. What is wrong with the fact I owned Tubes?
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