ravenazrael

I just got word from a popular cam girl that Chaturbate removed over 10k tokens from her account because those tokens were actually generated by a hacker.
From what I understand the tokens fraud is an internal control issue that CB must address. WHy would they deducting those tokens from the cam girl if the blame is on them for a) Not having controls to avoid token hacks, b) not raising alerts for unusual tokens balance changes c) No making reconciliations of tokens vs money by hour to detect issues.

I am surprised that will all the money they make they can't place proper internal controls. They should just google Chaturbate Token hack every day and take the measures they need. Again, I think that the lack of internal controls -financial and operational- are things that many companies lack of.
But, back to the point. It seems the model agreement they have does not have a paragraph regarding this, so I think CB would have to assume the expense.

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BIGTYMER

Why should CB eat it? They did the right thing. It's called revshare. CB deducts from our affiliate sales when we get refunds/chargebacks.

Fraud is fraud. We all lose.

clicker

Good practice

ravenazrael

I worked for a bank in internal control. If there was a fraud made by a third party which affected a client and passed our controls, the bank was responsible for it. It gave the money to the client and started to review the process, risks and controls.

If I were a performer I would be pissed off and would cam for another site. I think the girl just went to back MFC..So basically, CB does not see the potential reputational risk and other camgirls can take their fanbase somewhere else.
Chargebacks are inherent risks, however, the fact that a company cant have internal controls and somebody can increase the number of tokens in their noses says a lot of their internal control department, if they even have one.

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plaster

I think anyone who is reading this thread... should read this thread...

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...haturbate.html

scroll down to the bottom, or at least my recap

esham

Thats nothing new mfc did the same thing to me when the site was pretty new. They took 10k tokens from me and claimed there referal system wasent working correctly. Even though rooms would fill with names related to that site they where geting refered from. They basically wiped all of my account and put me at no sales. Which is impossible for the amount of traffic i was pushing.

Then they would ignore my emails and not even discuss it.

Dont be suprised if mfc does the same thing. Chaturbate Im sure is more trustworthy the mfc.

ravenazrael

MFC close my account because I spammed my blog once on a chat -some models shared my posts on them before-.. ok that was bad. But I had tokens in that account. I send several e-mails and I have been waiting for a reply for over 2 years.

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adultmobile

About banks who are so nice and keep all the losses... note that when a guy steals the card of a bank customer and does sales in a merchant site, like a cam site, and cardholder reports it so a chargeback happens, the loss goes on the cam site and not on the cardholder or the bank, who are the 2 guys that had to control 1) not enter own card in phishing email and 2) not have database hacked and anyway replace cards fast when happens.

The policies of cam sites depend by cam site, I am director of a cam site and I may decide different from others, however, please note that it happens at times that the model it is actually in agreement with the hacker, she orchestrate the money laundering calling the hacker the last day of pay period to submit (fake, stolen card, etc.) tips/minutes, then when she gets paid by the site she share 50% with the hacker. I remember "a site" at some point banned all the romanians from registering (all of the country) just because one very active carder was cooperating with a 1% of the romanian models with this scam schema - and it took months before romanians was accepted again. These frauds can put a small-medium site out of business, which is worst than a few models compaining about chargeback in forums (given, that most cam sites pass on the chargeback to model credits anyway).

Some models are so greedy that they invite the hacker with their own affiliate ID so to get 80% instead of 50%, that seems smart to them, but, it is a further evidence that she invited him to carding, together with the fact that he tips her only in the whole site.
Of course in these cases not only the models is not paid the hacker's credits, but nothing else she eventually got form legit sources, and account closed.

Said the above, this seems a different case, just a random hacker who carded or faked credits (more like carded), probably to multiple models. In these cases, what to do is discretionary to the cam site directors. In my cam site I have a rule (that models know) about a chargeback protection up to $250 per model per 15 days pay period (given that the model did not invited the carder or is not in collusion with). For example a model got $500 in pay period of which $200 from fake/fraud source, we pay $500 and take 100% of a $200 loss; or, if she got $500 of which $300 from fraud, we pay $300-$250=$50 less which is $450, and so on. Most other sites bill the model credits of all chargeback (this is a standard), some sites have no written policy but silently decide case by case, and some sites claim "no chargeback to models" ever (but I suspect in rare case of $1000+ chargebacks, they talk the model to deal...).

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Marshal

In some cases, it is quiet obvious that some models are cooperating with credit card fraudsters.
I was working on fraud investigation and prevention for a big webcam company for a while, and it's not always that easy to figure out what is actually going on there. And, of course, do not forget, every case has two different sides.

Colmike9

Stop crying about a chargeback. If we have to give money back because of them, so should the cam girls.

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2MuchMark

Good for Chaturbate.

First, comparing them or their policies to a bank is pointless. They are not a bank, they are a private company.

Fraud is fraud. Yes it sucks that a performer or affiliate has to lose any gains generated by that fraud, but thats the way it has to be. If a private company paid out on fraud, they would attract more and more scheming models and scamming affiliates.

I didn't read their cam model or affiliate policies, but I'm pretty sure they included a "no payout on fraud" clause somewhere.

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sarettah

Well, I don't see it spelled out but they do have this in chapter 13: Virtual Money

Terms & Conditions - Chaturbate

.

JFK

I agree

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MakeMeGrrrrowl

If I get charge backs, I deduct those charge backs from my sales people, as well as my managers, and I eat the fees.

Once we collect the money back, then the sales people and managers get the money back.

#23

good for them fighting fraud

nikki99

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maxjohan

I think direct bank transfers should be the new standard. Something like Trustly.

I love their service. Fraud would be way less then, you need to have somebody's bank pin and know their password etc.

I think it's pretty insane. That just by having somebody's CC you can make deposits on cam sites and in general, order stuff online.

The same should happen to affiliate programs. You need to make a small deposit with something like Trustly before being signed up.

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SBJ

I wonder if you are talking about the same girl I watched 2 nights ago. She claimed that CB took 11k in tokens from her this period cause someone recently dropped 11k in tokens using a stolen CC or something. 11k in tokens she says is $536 or something. She worked her ass of the other night and made like 12k in tokens. She complained a lil and didn't think it was fair but in the end she got herself out of debt from CB and she went on with the show.

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CPA-Rush

but your boss steal from others traffic ,unique content very good also add fake stores with stolen media obviously you help him in theft btw i'm not fooled by this avatar! gang!

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BIGTYMER

So your friend had 10k tokens taken on CB and you were kicked off MFC..

Walks like a duck? Starting to look like a duck.

ravenazrael

Probably the same one, as I don't think that happens that often. However, as stated on my original post "I got word" about it. It was another cam girl who told me and fraud was never mentioned. That's why my original post was referred to the Unfamous Tokens generators. Maybe was my mistake for not thinking of chargebacks.. But, how come there can be a 10k transaction from a credit card -which was stolen, so I assume the processor did not have it on its records, meaning this customer just spent 10k out of their ass in the first time on the cam- and it was not flagged.

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ravenazrael

Like I said, not my friend.. and the mfc ban was as a result of me posting on my blog -to get them traffic- about the cam girls and me and them sharing it on their rooms as some of those girls, back in the day, seemed to get excited about been talked about on a site.

So, maybe you should cook your duck for dinner.

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SBJ

ya this girl told chat it was 11k in tokens fraud charges from one night. She remember the night cause she made 20k in tokens and the guy that dropped 11k was not one of her regulars but was dropping 1k tips left and right.

I think it's fair for her to have to pay them back cause the girl shouldn't be able to keep 11k (around $500) that is charged back. CB would be going broke if they ate that money all the time.

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Adraco

It was never his money (the scammer's) to give anyway. Besides, being on cam, I doubt she "worked" very hard to earn it anyway.

It is only fair it is being deducted and I would expect nothing less. It was not his money to give and she thus never really "earned" it. Tokens in account are just "tokens" for a reason and do not equal money until transferred and arrived in your bank account.

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CPA-Rush

yes tokens only work internally just like virtual currency and can not used/transferred everywhere.

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OneMillionGirls

this is fucking crazy

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Barry-xlovecam

Everybody gets chargedback pro-rata.
The website lost money too.
Some of you dopes should get a salaried job -- this is a business -- grow the fuck up!
Business as a contractor has risks -- employees get paid their salary regardless of profit or loss.

Rule of thumb: No sales are completed unless the sale is paid for in the end -- cash or consideration paid and RECEIPTED.

kane

Chargebacks tend to roll down hill. Hell, I remember when I was 18 and working at Radio Shack back in the late 1980's. If someone bought something and then returned it we lost the commission from the sale even if the return had nothing to do with us.

CPA-Rush

cam sites need to have some education about security holes/wrong configurations.... fucking idiots i used to kick models from their own rooms
assign and remove moderators while i'm not in the site .

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rogueteens

its happened to affiliates for donkeys years so why shouldn't apply to cam girls too?

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Barry-xlovecam you got my attention ;)

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Barry-xlovecam

No, I left XloveCam months ago and emailed Eric to change this name twice.
I rarely went to the shows even though I was in Europe usually at the time -- had other things to do.
I speak too bluntly for these *shows* -- I stopped being an ass-kiss years ago.

incredibleworkethic

What's on your plate now? Are you still good with Xlovecam relationship wise? Best of luck.

CPA-Rush

to change your name e-mail

myjah

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Klen

I was sitting with Barry on one seminar, i can confirm how he speak blunt

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