Rant ?There's no money in porn? Just LOL. - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Bladewire · 07-03-2015, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I would assume that the companies you are talking about are probably working with non-Mindgeek pirate tube sites for traffic.

That's the main problem for traffic these days. It's all in a few big pirate tube sites. So any traffic broker or ad seller is basically getting most of their traffic from the same sources. And it's all shitty quality.

Some people make money with it by feeding a free site to jack up their numbers and then basically re-selling that traffic.

And then some of that gets bought by people doing the same thing. lol

Huge circle jerk of shit.

That's why I was saying that at the present time...if you can figure out the correct way to use social media (NOT posting xxx pics on Twitter...but actual interaction that draws interest) it's the best traffic source out there.

And that social media traffic you get is by it's very nature 100% TARGETED traffic. It's people who are coming to you because they are actually interested in what you have.

It's the difference between being rich...and just getting by. But you have to be very smart about it and really know your audience and how to interest them. As I said...I see people posting up xxx pics all over Twitter and I can only shake my head over it.

The completely wrong way to generate traffic for anyone except Twitter itself.

No, you want to make real posts that interest the reader and get them to click a link within the post to see any kind of picture. And that page that the picture is on is where you make your sales pitch.

I just gave you some really, really great advice by the way. Use it.

Thanks for that ;)

If you have Skype, add me, in my sig. I'll msg you there tonight if you do it quick, if not, then tomorrow. No strings, I don't have a cam lol I'm just giving you some info about Tumblr ;)

Robbie · 07-03-2015, 08:28 PM

Just added you on skype

Jel · 07-03-2015, 08:38 PM

All I'll add is that some traffic prefers personality type sites, some traffic likes fetish sites, some traffic likes... well, you get the point.

Tubes aren't the magic answer for all sites, social media isn't the magic answer for all sites. They are a good answer for the right sites though.

JT has posted some real gold on here and elsewhere - truly 24k gold, on what type of sites work with tubes. Others have posted gold here and elsewhere about what types of sites work great with social media sites. Barefootsies has posted gold on what type of offers work with mail lists. And so it goes on - all the info is out there, well, enough flashing neon clues anyway - people just need to absorb it.

It's well known (and excuse the source, for everyone who has heard this phrase) that most people look for the differences not the similarities, so it's natural to jump immediately to the why it doesn't work, if you personally don't have the right product fit for a customer base. You have a choice:

1. find the right customer base for your product and tap into it, whether that be tubes, social media, or otherwise
2. find the right product to give your customer base

It's not as simplistic as that obviously, but... it isn't that far off.

Robbie · 07-03-2015, 08:42 PM

Good post Jel

AmeliaG · 07-03-2015, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil-flash

Is phpList a good server side email sotware? If anyone has experience with it could you reply with pros and cons?

I use it. It is not terribly full featured, but you can't beat the price and it integrates with SMTP.

The Porn Nerd · 07-03-2015, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I would assume that the companies you are talking about are probably working with non-Mindgeek pirate tube sites for traffic.

That's the main problem for traffic these days. It's all in a few big pirate tube sites. So any traffic broker or ad seller is basically getting most of their traffic from the same sources. And it's all shitty quality.

Some people make money with it by feeding a free site to jack up their numbers and then basically re-selling that traffic.

And then some of that gets bought by people doing the same thing. lol

Huge circle jerk of shit.

That's why I was saying that at the present time...if you can figure out the correct way to use social media (NOT posting xxx pics on Twitter...but actual interaction that draws interest) it's the best traffic source out there.

And that social media traffic you get is by it's very nature 100% TARGETED traffic. It's people who are coming to you because they are actually interested in what you have.

It's the difference between being rich...and just getting by. But you have to be very smart about it and really know your audience and how to interest them. As I said...I see people posting up xxx pics all over Twitter and I can only shake my head over it.

The completely wrong way to generate traffic for anyone except Twitter itself.

No, you want to make real posts that interest the reader and get them to click a link within the post to see any kind of picture. And that page that the picture is on is where you make your sales pitch.

I just gave you some really, really great advice by the way. Use it.

Which is why most won't get it or use your advice. LOL

Robbie · 07-03-2015, 09:00 PM

Thanks for the conversation on Skype Bladewire. Awesome idea that you implemented.

plaster · 07-03-2015, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Thanks for the conversation on Skype Bladewire. Awesome idea that you implemented.

Post tumblr method please.

Bladewire · 07-03-2015, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

I use it. It is not terribly full featured, but you can't beat the price and it integrates with SMTP.

I haven't looked back since migrating to Campaigner for email distribution. I've had 20% - 25% more emails go through with them since switching a year or so ago. It's weird not doing it in house on my own server but there were evidently things I didn't know, that they have built in to provide better deliverability.

Robbie · 07-03-2015, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plaster

Post tumblr method please.

That isn't gonna happen.

Bladewire · 07-03-2015, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Thanks for the conversation on Skype Bladewire. Awesome idea that you implemented.

plaster · 07-03-2015, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladewire

I haven't looked back since migrating to Campaigner for email distribution. I've had 20% - 25% more emails go through with them since switching a year or so ago. It's weird not doing it in house on my own server but there were evidently things I didn't know, that they have built in to provide better deliverability.

Nice... so you are only paying $299.95 for up to 50K emails per month... lol

That's only 10x more then you need to but still about 10% of the price some of these other hacks will offer.

hint... critsend... don't worry though, you ain't gonna take the advice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

That isn't gonna happen.

Of course not, because this thread is not about sharing is it? No need to answer, I already know how he uses tumblr ;) And it works to scrape some sales together... about it.

Bladewire · 07-03-2015, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jel

All I'll add is that some traffic prefers personality type sites, some traffic likes fetish sites, some traffic likes... well, you get the point.

Tubes aren't the magic answer for all sites, social media isn't the magic answer for all sites. They are a good answer for the right sites though.

JT has posted some real gold on here and elsewhere - truly 24k gold, on what type of sites work with tubes. Others have posted gold here and elsewhere about what types of sites work great with social media sites. Barefootsies has posted gold on what type of offers work with mail lists. And so it goes on - all the info is out there, well, enough flashing neon clues anyway - people just need to absorb it.

It's well known (and excuse the source, for everyone who has heard this phrase) that most people look for the differences not the similarities, so it's natural to jump immediately to the why it doesn't work, if you personally don't have the right product fit for a customer base. You have a choice:

1. find the right customer base for your product and tap into it, whether that be tubes, social media, or otherwise
2. find the right product to give your customer base

It's not as simplistic as that obviously, but... it isn't that far off.

Well said Jel, and totally on the mark as usual. I like that about you man

I think it's important to remember, content creators are at a huge disadvantage posting on the boards, that's why most of us don't. We are tagged, people know who we are. Thieves are not tagged for the most part, and they are not posting on here about their latest techniques for undetected content curation, etc.

We literally take on all of the cost and spent energy to create content. Finding the models via paying for scouting, paying for ads, paying for casting calls, then shooting them, paying for location, paying for editing the content, paying for marketing, paying for hosting, paying taxes, paying models, etc. You know this, I'm just repeating it for those who randomly might not.

All thieves do is just hang out and wait for the next updated and a new way for someone in their criminal network to subscribe undetected and steal with no overhead. These aren't regular subscribers, they are part of an organized criminal network, with a specific pattern to how they operate

Focus · 07-03-2015, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'm not sure what you made in the past Focus. You could have made $5 and now you make $10. heh-heh

You know what I'm saying.

The important thing is that you have figured out a way to keep going and make what I presume is a good living in adult.

The problem with being an affiliate these days is this: Back in those earlier days the real money was in selling paysite memberships. Hands down. No contest.

These days?
As an affiliate the only money left (and it's not much in comparison) is in dating and cams.

The people who still make money in the outer fringes of adult are people who are selling ad spots on their enormous tube sites.

Like Pornhub and the other Mansef/Manwin/Mindgeek tube properties.
That's where their money is being made these days. The majority of their money isn't coming from their paysites. It's off of their tubes.

How can I prove that? I can't. But it doesn't take a genius to see that.

They are running so many servers just to take care of Pornhub alone (I have very good friends at Swiftwill where they host). They are spending a lot of money to keep those tube sites up and running. And for a very good reason...to sell ad spots to desperate paysite owners who have run out of options.

I'm gonna hazard a guess that you are making more money now than in the past because of one of 2 reasons:
1. You got hired by a company that pays you more.
Or...if you are self-employed with your own company as an affiliate...
2. You are making more money by pushing dating and cams OR you have a tube site with some traffic to sell.

But I don't know anybody who was successful in the time period you stated who is making more money as an affiliate selling paysite memberships for programs.

If you are...then please sign up for our affiliate program and let's make money together.

Hello, the main reason really is being different and yes I do have a tube without full videos but thats easy to make tube nowadays but what most people are lacking at is getting good baiting scene to make your viewer having a rage on boner saliva coming from all holes and cant wait to sign to see the rest and then if the paysite studies the videos which retains the clients then we are both happy. Pornhub got their work done by uploaders which can be automatic for me I rather be the one controlling whats goes in and play with my traffic tastes and taste can change every week, month ect. Having members thatll say wow that was a fucking good scene I need more makes not only your brand grows quick but they come back to always see the new trend. I barely run ads cause I get the most of my traffic anyways. Bottom line you understand your traffic like jel said and watch the magic, in the past I wasnt rly paying attention to what I had since people werent that diffficult but now hard work pays off.

Robbie · 07-03-2015, 11:09 PM

Nice post Focus.

I too have a small legit tube site that I have had for years. And like you, I don't allow any "user uploads" at all.

I only use sponsor approved video and I don't spam the page up horribly like Pornhub does.

It really doesn't make any real amount of money. A few sales a week. Less than I used to make in an hour. But it is what it is for paysite sales these days.

The Porn Nerd · 07-03-2015, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Nice post Focus.

I too have a small legit tube site that I have had for years. And like you, I don't allow any "user uploads" at all.

I only use sponsor approved video and I don't spam the page up horribly like Pornhub does.

It really doesn't make any real amount of money. A few sales a week. Less than I used to make in an hour. But it is what it is for paysite sales these days.

But I bet if you promoted the tube the way you promote CM the sales would increase? Maybe you already do.

lock · 07-04-2015, 12:11 AM

The same people that complain have no traffic.

Paul Markham · 07-04-2015, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

1. Convenience.
2. Impulse (closely tied to #1)
3. Privacy reasons
4. Moral and social reasons (?)
5. Self image

#1, Nothing iis more convenient than a Tube.
#2 Last until the end of the jerk off
#3 Giving CC, password and email isn't adding privacy. And a wife can find out.
#4: No one considers viewing porn on a Tube as more or less moral.
#5: Agree with your analysis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Like Pornhub and the other Mansef/Manwin/Mindgeek tube properties.
That's where their money is being made these days. The majority of their money isn't coming from their paysites. It's off of their tubes.

Are Mindgeek cutting costs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaughtyEmails

It's a $12 billion industry in the U.S alone. You don't need a big a slice of that to do very very well for yourself.

Where do you see $1bn companies in porn? Any industry that large would have major companies we would all know.

Mainstream Dating, though many have gone to it from porn. Isn't porn. What are these worth?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jel

All I'll add is that some traffic prefers personality type sites, some traffic likes fetish sites, some traffic likes... well, you get the point.

It's well known (and excuse the source, for everyone who has heard this phrase) that most people look for the differences not the similarities, so it's natural to jump immediately to the why it doesn't work, if you personally don't have the right product fit for a customer base. You have a choice:

Good points.

A site has to present very good reasons for people to join, other than getting an email or landing on the site. That used to work, it no longer will. Robbie does it with Claudia, others with fetish, personality, interaction, the sense of empathy with the model. Will all sell and can't be got from many Tubes. Or sites that are based on the one model, different scenes, only basis.

Even then if the member can download 100 scenes for $30, that's enough to keep most men going for three months. It would of cost them $700 in 1999. Even daily updates, only means they download more and come back in 6 months and download the updates. Better than not coming back at all. And there are those who can't be bothered.

Offering a reason to log on every day, is going to increase revenue. How many log on to Twitter or FB every day? Aiming high, but it works for them.

The Porn Nerd · 07-04-2015, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

#1, Nothing iis more convenient than a Tube.
#2 Last until the end of the jerk off
#3 Giving CC, password and email isn't adding privacy. And a wife can find out.
#4: No one considers viewing porn on a Tube as more or less moral.
#5: Agree with your analysis.

Are Mindgeek cutting costs?

Where do you see $1bn companies in porn? Any industry that large would have major companies we would all know.

Mainstream Dating, though many have gone to it from porn. Isn't porn. What are these worth?

Good points.

A site has to present very good reasons for people to join, other than getting an email or landing on the site. That used to work, it no longer will. Robbie does it with Claudia, others with fetish, personality, interaction, the sense of empathy with the model. Will all sell and can't be got from many Tubes. Or sites that are based on the one model, different scenes, only basis.

Even then if the member can download 100 scenes for $30, that's enough to keep most men going for three months. It would of cost them $700 in 1999. Even daily updates, only means they download more and come back in 6 months and download the updates. Better than not coming back at all. And there are those who can't be bothered.

Offering a reason to log on every day, is going to increase revenue. How many log on to Twitter or FB every day? Aiming high, but it works for them.

Let me clarify:

#1, Nothing is more convenient than a Tube.
Wrong. You have to search and search to find something you want to wank off to, and every second searching is a second you're not being satisfied.

#2 Last until the end of the jerk off
This contradicts JT's theory of the 'happy zone' (post masturbation) when the customer is more likely to buy.

#3 Giving CC, password and email isn't adding privacy. And a wife can find out.
Privacy as in: I joined your site and my cc info is secure. You're not sharing my info to spam email lists, etc.

#4: No one considers viewing porn on a Tube as more or less moral.
You've been in Europe too long.

plaster · 07-04-2015, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lock

The same people that complain have no traffic.

the smallest make the biggest racket....

Paul Markham · 07-04-2015, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Let me clarify:

#1, Nothing is more convenient than a Tube.
Wrong. You have to search and search to find something you want to wank off to, and every second searching is a second you're not being satisfied.

#2 Last until the end of the jerk off
This contradicts JT's theory of the 'happy zone' (post masturbation) when the customer is more likely to buy.

#3 Giving CC, password and email isn't adding privacy. And a wife can find out.
Privacy as in: I joined your site and my cc info is secure. You're not sharing my info to spam email lists, etc.

#4: No one considers viewing porn on a Tube as more or less moral.
You've been in Europe too long.

1. Depends what get's you off. And depends on the quality of the paysite.
2. Depends if you want to come back to the Tube.
3. Yes that was my site, most of the discussion here is about unwanted emails. And CC info has been hacked and misused.
4. Immoral in the sense of getting it for free. Watching American comedy shows, viewing porn isn't as taboo as it was. I remember the day when buying a titty mag was considered a moral crime.

Porntubes satisfy 1,000s to every 1 person who buys. Sending more traffic is no longer the answer, still has done though.

The consumer has to be given solid reasons to pay for porn today. Something that can't be provided on a Tube site, even if it takes 10 minutes to find it. And once found, odds are it's easier to find the next time.

I just searched "milf stockings garters" found a suitable scene in minutes.

Paul Markham · 07-04-2015, 01:36 AM

This is what today's porn consumer has to choose from.

Just a small selection of what's on offer for the mainstream porn consumer.

The trick isn't just to get more passers by. It's to make them chooseyour site.

BigFurry · 07-04-2015, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

I guess I should ask here and now then: IS it ok to email past Members? They didn't 'double opt in'....

See why I don't do this emailing shit? LOL

I don't think it's OK. It's OK to send them "transactional emails", not "commercial emails". Mixing ads into transactional emails isn't the solution either, it would be regarded as commercial if an average customer feels that it's a marketing email.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...guide-business

If you want to be safe, you could welcome new members with some message in the member area that gets them to double opt-in your future emails for instance.

Focus · 07-04-2015, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

This is what today's porn consumer has to choose from.

Just a small selection of what's on offer for the mainstream porn consumer.

The trick isn't just to get more passers by. It's to make them chooseyour site.

JuicyBunny · 07-04-2015, 03:46 AM

Great thread this last page. The best offering some sound advice and a few reality checks. Thanks guys.

The Porn Nerd · 07-04-2015, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFurry

I don't think it's OK. It's OK to send them "transactional emails", not "commercial emails". Mixing ads into transactional emails isn't the solution either, it would be regarded as commercial if an average customer feels that it's a marketing email.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...guide-business

If you want to be safe, you could welcome new members with some message in the member area that gets them to double opt-in your future emails for instance.

Well I looked into our TOS and it says if you join you agree to receive promotional emails (that you can unsubscribe from) so maybe that covers it? I think you should be able to email ex-Members, just not spam the shit out of them. LOL

Barefootsies · 07-04-2015, 08:38 AM

Some of your seem to unrealistically fear or lack understanding of CAN-SPAM compliance. Here is a link for you that should help some of your better understand the law and what it means, requires, and the main bullet points you should follow.

Complying With CAN-SPAM: A 10-Point Checklist for Marketers

In short, it is not that difficult to be compliant. You cover it in your AUP, doubt opt them in, tada. Make it clear you will or can use their email address for your own company, or third party offers. They of course can opt-out if so inclined.

Barefootsies · 07-04-2015, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Let me clarify:

.....

Let me briefly game out a scenario based on your and Robbie's talking points.

Your sales are sliding over the years because of tubes, free content, the boogeyman whatever. Over your time in business, you have amassed a 1 million member or past contact list between your clips4sale store, pay sites, newsletters, sign ups, whatever.

Now, you could use that list to try and promote your own pay site with your discount offers to increase sales. You could use it to market to them mainstream affiliate offers, or any number of other money making options with this list. But you don't, because your REMAINING membership loyalty is gold despite it's on the decline.

At what point do you decide that you need to focus on your company and making money?

If that list could make you $4000.00 a month in affiliate offers for mainstream products would that do it? How about if people paid you to send their offers to your list on a CPM basis that made you $5k+ a month, would that do it? At what point do you start to see the value in your list and money you're losing for the "loyalty" of members who have minimal loyalty to you?

Lastly, people keep citing this "loyalty" that members have. As if they are all going to flee over a few emails. You do know they can opt-out with a single click on the first email received right? If your content is that good, they are not going to leave over a few emails. Additionally, if your members loyalty can be shaken with a few recommended offers, they were not that loyal to begin with. You run a business that needs to stay earn revenue to keep providing what they enjoy.

BigFurry · 07-04-2015, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Well I looked into our TOS and it says if you join you agree to receive promotional emails (that you can unsubscribe from) so maybe that covers it? I think you should be able to email ex-Members, just not spam the shit out of them. LOL

I read up a bit again, and you could be right. Sending commercial emails only makes you a subject of CAN-SPAM, but at first glance it looks like CAN-SPAM doesn't require opt-in at all, only to honor opt-outs. EU laws seem to require opt-in, don't know if a TOS paragraph is good enough for that.

I guess everyone enforcing double opt-in is more about not getting your emails blacklisted everywhere rather than complying with the laws. I doubt your ex-members would mind too much if they can easily unsubscribe.

By the way another interesting part part of CAN-SPAM is that emails should require a physical address of the sender. I think many adult emails fail to include that.

BigFurry · 07-04-2015, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Some of your seem to unrealistically fear or lack understanding of CAN-SPAM compliance. Here is a link for you that should help some of your better understand the law and what it means, requires, and the main bullet points you should follow.

Complying With CAN-SPAM: A 10-Point Checklist for Marketers

In short, it is not that difficult to be compliant. You cover it in your AUP, doubt opt them in, tada. Make it clear you will or can use their email address for your own company, or third party offers. They of course can opt-out if so inclined.

Sure it's easy to get people to comply if you're in the business of collecting emails with landing pages designed to do that. But if you're mainly collecting paysite customers, it's not that easy. You have several options:
- only include it in the terms of service that members will receive marketing emails (concerns: good enough to comply with laws? may it put you on email blacklists?)
- add a pre-checked checkbox on the join page to subscribe for marketing emails (concerns: good enough to comply with laws? may it put you on email blacklists? also might scare off customers from joining)
- optional offer for members to sign up for marketing emails with a real double opt-in (concerns: a large percentage probably won't do it)

It's even harder if you're already given a situation, eg. you have tens of thousands of member emails but you never asked them consent to send them marketing material.

Barefootsies · 07-04-2015, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFurry

Sure it's easy to get people to comply if you're in the business of collecting emails with landing pages designed to do that. But if you're mainly collecting paysite customers, it's not that easy. You have several options:

...

.....or you would do the same thing that large corporations do.

That is, you send out a notice to all present, past, members and notify them that the pay site's TOS has changed, here is a link to it for review if so inclined, and provide an opt out link on that page.

I am honestly not sure why some of you are making it more difficult than it really is.

ravo · 07-04-2015, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

I am honestly not sure why some of you are making it more difficult that it really is.

Thanks for the voice of reason. This is not rocket science...

BigFurry · 07-04-2015, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravo

Thanks for the voice of reason. This is not rocket science...

Sure. All I'm saying is that one should do his due diligence and make sure to comply with laws rather than just taking the emails and start spamming away.

I do agree that there's big money in emailing ex-members and possibly current ones.

Barefootsies · 07-04-2015, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravo

Thanks for the voice of reason. This is not rocket science...

My thoughts exactly.

If that Porn Nerd or others think all email marketing is spam, fine. Do not send email then. It really that simple and there is no need for additional excuses and nonsense on the topic of CAN-SPAM, opt-in permissions and so forth. I will concede from the opinions some have shared that email marketing is not the right choice for everyone, but if you feel that you will lose all of your members because of it, so be it. We agree to disagree.

I think the OP's point of view was that your members or newsletter lists are gold, and you have any number of ways to use them to make you more money. Not all of it is just sending adult offers. I did not see his remarks as condescending, but I can see where some would if he's an outsider coming in talking to established guys like Robbie.

Either way, some of the replies in the thread on the topic are ridiculous. It is not that hard to get opt-in, change a TOS, or get them an opt-out link if they do not want it.

Barefootsies · 07-04-2015, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFurry

I do agree that there's big money in emailing ex-members and possibly current ones.

Correct.

Robbie · 07-04-2015, 10:09 AM

BF you are missing a couple of things though. The reason that it can be a worry over the Can Spam Act is this: "For each and every violation of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003, a business or person engaging in commercial emailings can be fined up to $11,000."

That's one of the big reasons that affiliate programs put an end to allowing affiliates to send out email campaigns for their sites.

I'm kinda surprised that Clips 4 Sale is allowing you to do it.
If for any reason you get flagged...it will be THEM being fined.

Not saying that you aren't correct. I'm just pointing out that you keep saying that you can't understand why people are so worried about it.

Big difference in what you're doing with Clips 4 Sale and what I'm doing as the paysite owner.

Having said that...it's still easy to actually do it as a paysite owner. There are just far more variables in a recurring revenue situation like I have VS you making clip sales that are not recurring.

You can scoff at member loyalty all day long. But the fact is...without the loyal recurring members a paysite owner is fucked.
And in our case...they are able to email (private message) both Claudia Marie and myself inside the members area already (which they do).
And I'm also able to do upsells (which I do) inside the members area (without getting spammy about it).

It's just a different way to skin the cat between your CS4 site and a paysite.

NaughtyEmails · 07-04-2015, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Let me briefly game out a scenario based on your and Robbie's talking points.

Your sales are sliding over the years because of tubes, free content, the boogeyman whatever. Over your time in business, you have amassed a 1 million member or past contact list between your clips4sale store, pay sites, newsletters, sign ups, whatever.

Now, you could use that list to try and promote your own pay site with your discount offers to increase sales. You could use it to market to them mainstream affiliate offers, or any number of other money making options with this list. But you don't, because your REMAINING membership loyalty is gold despite it's on the decline.

At what point do you decide that you need to focus on your company and making money?

If that list could make you $4000.00 a month in affiliate offers for mainstream products would that do it? How about if people paid you to send their offers to your list on a CPM basis that made you $5k+ a month, would that do it? At what point do you start to see the value in your list and money you're losing for the "loyalty" of members who have minimal loyalty to you?

Lastly, people keep citing this "loyalty" that members have. As if they are all going to flee over a few emails. You do know they can opt-out with a single click on the first email received right? If your content is that good, they are not going to leave over a few emails. Additionally, if your members loyalty can be shaken with a few recommended offers, they were not that loyal to begin with. You run a business that needs to stay earn revenue to keep providing what they enjoy.

Well said.

I have to fight against the same naysayers in the mainstream.

They treat their list like rose petals because they're afraid of losing a single subscriber.

It's silly. We're in this to make money.

And if you monetize your list creatively, the revenue you'll pull in will far outstrip any lost members.

I can't fathom why it's so "disrespectful" for me to point this out -- just trying to help a few porn webmasters.

But perhaps I should bow in reverence to Robbie because he filmed John Holmes and back in the day made beaucoup bucks. Naturally, he knows far more about email marketing than me (even though by his own admission he rarely does it).

Barefootsies · 07-04-2015, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

It's just a different way to skin the cat between your CS4 site and a paysite.

I have newsletters, present and past members to my pay sites, as well as C4S among other lists developed over time. Referencing the C4S was just an example, not to say I just do one over the other. I can assure you that one is no difference in that regard.

There are other reasons for adult programs saying they do not allow it publicly, despite most mail themselves. But that is a different discussion. As I said, some people in this thread are dead set against it, and the reasons cited are honestly laughable to me. But then again, I have years of experience.

Anyway, we will just agree to disagree as you have made your decision on the subject.

Robbie · 07-04-2015, 10:37 AM

@NaughtyEmails: It wasn't disrespectful of you.

What I said in the very beginning was that you were "lol"ing at people who are far better at this than you are.

And you are still attacking me and pretending that because I'm very successful in this business and have adapted and changed more times than a chameleon to stay that way ...that somehow a person such as yourself with no experience is better at this than I am?

Dude. Grow the fuck up.

I've already educated you about the FACT that you are NOT going to be able to do email campaigns as an affiliate as you were claiming you could in the beginning.

You don't know what you're talking about.

I've seen these kinds of posts from other smartasses who came on the scene thinking they know more than professionals with real experience do.

None of them are still around.

Here's my advice to you...instead of mouthing off to people, you should do what I do when I come across someone with more experience at something: Sit down under the learning tree and check your ego.

Barefootsies · 07-04-2015, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaughtyEmails

But perhaps I should bow in reverence to Robbie because he filmed John Holmes and back in the day made beaucoup bucks. Naturally, he knows far more about email marketing than me (even though by his own admission he rarely does it).

I disagree with Robbie when it comes to email marketing and his point of views on this subject as well. I am not saying some of his concerns might have some validity to those who do not understand email marketing on the scale you're referencing.

That said, Robbie is one of the smartest guys in the adult space and been around a long time accomplishing more than most still active on this forum. While that does not mean he is always right, you also should not dismiss him and his point of view either just because you disagree.

I have done adult and mainstream email marketing. I know the potential. I have seen the power of newsletters and emailing members, developing new lists and the revenue it can bring with the RIGHT offers + solid deliverability. But as this thread has shown you, there are some who simply have dug in their heels on the subject.

Robbie · 07-04-2015, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Anyway, we will just agree to disagree as you have made your decision on the subject.

I never make any final decision. I'm always subject to change!

That's why I DO send out emails to my members SPARINGLY.

And as I said we communicate and upsell them already inside the members area as well.

It's just a different way to approach it. And yeah BF, you have a few years experience and you're a smart guy. But I remember not too long ago when you attended your first shows and were trying to find your way.

Don't get too jaded brother! Keep that old BareFootsies attitude of being open and learning.
You're a very smart guy and you should be proud of what you've accomplished. But there are reasons that I do things the way I do and they aren't "laughable". Just getting to the same destination in a slightly different way.

Our members are fans of Claudia. We have to treat them a bit differently than I would if it were a paysite featuring many models.

That's why we are so successful. The interaction that goes on inside the site. Our members are literally talking to her everyday on live cam and private messaging.

I can't really spam them via email. But I CAN and DO hit them with offers inside the members area. And they trust me. So I can sell them on stuff.

Barefootsies · 07-04-2015, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

yeah BF, you have a few years experience and you're a smart guy. But I remember not too long ago when you attended your first shows and were trying to find your way.

Always learning man. Don't let the text come across harsher than intended. I do not know everything, I just know a lot about the subject matter at hand in regards to email marketing and potential revenue. I past and present work with some of the bigger programs, and ESPs, in the mainstream arena doing this stuff day in and out in some capacity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Don't get too jaded brother! Keep that old BareFootsies attitude of being open and learning.

Never stopped. Always tinkering and trying new stuff brother. The only constant is change. When at the conferences, I try and pick the brains of guys like yourself, Wizzo, JT, Dillie, Jimmy Gunn, or guys that know a lot of things I do not and try and apply that knowledge so I can work smarter versus harder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You're a very smart guy and you should be proud of what you've accomplished. But there are reasons that I do things the way I do and they aren't "laughable". Just getting to the same destination in a slightly different way.

No insult was meant to you or anyone else in the thread. As you know from the years, I am just straight to the point in my use of language. Often times people take it harder than intended. I am used to it by now. It is not intended to bash anyone. Just my writing style.

NaughtyEmails · 07-04-2015, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

@NaughtyEmails: It wasn't disrespectful of you.

What I said in the very beginning was that you were "lol"ing at people who are far better at this than you are.

And you are still attacking me and pretending that because I'm very successful in this business and have adapted and changed more times than a chameleon to stay that way ...that somehow a person such as yourself with no experience is better at this than I am?

Dude. Grow the fuck up.

I've already educated you about the FACT that you are NOT going to be able to do email campaigns as an affiliate as you were claiming you could in the beginning.

You don't know what you're talking about.

I've seen these kinds of posts from other smartasses who came on the scene thinking they know more than professionals with real experience do.

None of them are still around.

Here's my advice to you...instead of mouthing off to people, you should do what I do when I come across someone with more experience at something: Sit down under the learning tree and check your ego.

Again, for a guy who is so "successful" in this business, you whine and moan a lot.

I wrote an inspirational post, saying there's money on the table, and specifically mention a low-cost marketing channel in which to go get it. And you get offended by that? It's not my ego that's the problem.

You keep harping on your dying affiliate offers that don't allow email...Big deal. There are a gazillion different products (adult and mainstream) you can pitch your list. But you're too close minded to consider it.

That's fine. But stop hijacking the thread with your good 'ol days stories. And let the rest of us carry on making sales. Cheers.

Robbie · 07-04-2015, 10:54 AM

Whine and moan? LOL!

Where did I whine and moan? Brother you are delusional. Good luck with your entry into the adult world.

I like your cocky attitude (I have one too).
Here's to you learning more about the industry and being able to back it up.

Robbie · 07-04-2015, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

No insult was meant to you or anyone else in the thread. As you know from the years, I am just straight to the point in my use of language. Often times people take it harder than intended. I am used to it by now. It is not intended to bash anyone. Just my writing style.

Oh I know! You've pissed off so many people in the past. lol

But I know you as a person and know that text does come across as sterile and harsh. You've never offended me in any way. And I would never be disrespectful to you either. (Unless I see you at a show and call you a "pussy" when you won't drink with me lol)

mopek1 · 07-04-2015, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaughtyEmails

I wrote an inspirational post,

That's an assumption.

NaughtyEmails · 07-04-2015, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Whine and moan? LOL!

Where did I whine and moan? Brother you are delusional. Good luck with your entry into the adult world.

I like your cocky attitude (I have one too).
Here's to you learning more about the industry and being able to back it up.

You're not going to make me go back and copy/paste the many times you mentioned how much money you used to make, are ya?

I'll admit...I have much to learn about porn. And if I hear wisdom, I'll listen up.

But you've spent this entire thread talking about how awesome you are and your veteran status. It's great that you've managed to stick around.

But what results are you getting NOW? What's the trend? Up or down?

It may surprise you but there are people laughing all the way to the bank in this biz. I know a couple. I've worked with one or two.

All I'm interested in is what's working for them.

If that makes me come across as grating, then so be it. I'm here to make money, not kiss ass.

Robbie · 07-04-2015, 11:16 AM

Whatever NaughtyEmails. The only time I talked about "how much money I made" was to point out to you that there is a reason that people say that "there's no money in porn".

They don't literally mean that there isn't ANY money. There is plenty. But it is contracting greatly.

Do you really think I'm bragging to say that I used to make 7 figures a year just as an affiliate and now I don't?
Hell no. That's not bragging. That's pointing out a dying business model in adult.

Many of the big companies are doing almost all of their marketing in-house these days because affiliates don't have the traffic anymore and allowing affiliates to email is taboo.

That's just stating FACTS. Not whining or moaning.

I, and many others ARE success stories in how to continue to be successful through creating different revenue streams. If you think it was easy to watch one revenue stream that I worked to create for over a decade...suddenly dry up, you're crazy.

But I didn't let it stop me.

And I'm sorry if I look at disdain with yet ANOTHER post from a guy with no experience trying to tell all of us that we're doing it all wrong. Again.

And I hope you do make money. I never asked you to "kiss ass".

And no, I'm not surprised at people "laughing all the way to the bank". I'm one of them.
Maybe you will be one day too.

As for the results NOW...as you asked: I pretty plainly have said that my paysite business is still just fine. It's my affiliate side of the business that went to hell...just like EVERYBODY else did.

And you aren't "interested in what's working for them". If you were you would have listened to what I told you. I AM one of "them".
Instead you've spent the thread telling us that you know better and you have "clients" that you are already doing email campaigns as affiliates in the adult industry.

No problem. As I said, I don't mind someone with a cocky attitude.
I hope it works out for you. Good luck.

The Porn Nerd · 07-04-2015, 11:21 AM

BF: Thanks for that link! If I can ask, would you recommend using an email service like YNOT or Mail Chimp? The cost for me would be $200 a month with Mail Chimp but they say unlimited emails to my 40K+ list.

After reading some great advice in this thread (and others) on the subject I believe I am ready to test emails with some good offers, both for my sites and other mainstream offers.

I did some research. I had used YNOT for about 1 1/2 years and sent out emails once a month to ex-Members. Plus I do a weekly newsletter. So I looked at both stats and guess what? Only about 2% of subscribers UNsubscribed. Meaning, my lists are still big and people were not opting out like crazy. Even a couple hundred only constitutes a tiny fraction.

Time to go for it!

NaughtyEmails · 07-04-2015, 11:25 AM

Again, I already said my experience in adult is limited.

But I've been in IM consulting for a decade...working with the best minds in the industry.

For you to say that has absolutely zero carryover to Adult is just silly. It's still IM.

But anyhow, let's put it behind us. We don't see eye-to-eye and that's perfectly fine with me.

07-03-2015, 08:28 PM	#102
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,841	Just added you on skype __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

07-03-2015, 08:42 PM	#104
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,841	Good post Jel __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

07-03-2015, 09:00 PM	#107
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,841	Thanks for the conversation on Skype Bladewire. Awesome idea that you implemented. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

07-03-2015, 11:09 PM	#115
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,841	Nice post Focus. I too have a small legit tube site that I have had for years. And like you, I don't allow any "user uploads" at all. I only use sponsor approved video and I don't spam the page up horribly like Pornhub does. It really doesn't make any real amount of money. A few sales a week. Less than I used to make in an hour. But it is what it is for paysite sales these days. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

07-04-2015, 12:11 AM	#117
lock Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 5,065	The same people that complain have no traffic. __________________ Traffic.Tools - 40+ Free Tools Free.Marketing - 150+ Free Tools Submission.Tools - 20+ Free Tools

07-03-2015, 08:38 PM	#103
Jel Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,903	All I'll add is that some traffic prefers personality type sites, some traffic likes fetish sites, some traffic likes... well, you get the point. Tubes aren't the magic answer for all sites, social media isn't the magic answer for all sites. They are a good answer for the right sites though. JT has posted some real gold on here and elsewhere - truly 24k gold, on what type of sites work with tubes. Others have posted gold here and elsewhere about what types of sites work great with social media sites. Barefootsies has posted gold on what type of offers work with mail lists. And so it goes on - all the info is out there, well, enough flashing neon clues anyway - people just need to absorb it. It's well known (and excuse the source, for everyone who has heard this phrase) that most people look for the differences not the similarities, so it's natural to jump immediately to the why it doesn't work, if you personally don't have the right product fit for a customer base. You have a choice: 1. find the right customer base for your product and tap into it, whether that be tubes, social media, or otherwise 2. find the right product to give your customer base It's not as simplistic as that obviously, but... it isn't that far off.

07-04-2015, 01:36 AM	#122
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	This is what today's porn consumer has to choose from. Just a small selection of what's on offer for the mainstream porn consumer. The trick isn't just to get more passers by. It's to make them chooseyour site. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

07-04-2015, 03:46 AM	#125
JuicyBunny So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Tokyo Red Light District Posts: 2,145	Great thread this last page. The best offering some sound advice and a few reality checks. Thanks guys.

07-04-2015, 08:38 AM	#127
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	Some of your seem to unrealistically fear or lack understanding of CAN-SPAM compliance. Here is a link for you that should help some of your better understand the law and what it means, requires, and the main bullet points you should follow. Complying With CAN-SPAM: A 10-Point Checklist for Marketers In short, it is not that difficult to be compliant. You cover it in your AUP, doubt opt them in, tada. Make it clear you will or can use their email address for your own company, or third party offers. They of course can opt-out if so inclined. __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

07-04-2015, 10:09 AM	#136
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,841	BF you are missing a couple of things though. The reason that it can be a worry over the Can Spam Act is this: "For each and every violation of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003, a business or person engaging in commercial emailings can be fined up to $11,000." That's one of the big reasons that affiliate programs put an end to allowing affiliates to send out email campaigns for their sites. I'm kinda surprised that Clips 4 Sale is allowing you to do it. If for any reason you get flagged...it will be THEM being fined. Not saying that you aren't correct. I'm just pointing out that you keep saying that you can't understand why people are so worried about it. Big difference in what you're doing with Clips 4 Sale and what I'm doing as the paysite owner. Having said that...it's still easy to actually do it as a paysite owner. There are just far more variables in a recurring revenue situation like I have VS you making clip sales that are not recurring. You can scoff at member loyalty all day long. But the fact is...without the loyal recurring members a paysite owner is fucked. And in our case...they are able to email (private message) both Claudia Marie and myself inside the members area already (which they do). And I'm also able to do upsells (which I do) inside the members area (without getting spammy about it). It's just a different way to skin the cat between your CS4 site and a paysite. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

07-04-2015, 10:37 AM	#139
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,841	@NaughtyEmails: It wasn't disrespectful of you. What I said in the very beginning was that you were "lol"ing at people who are far better at this than you are. And you are still attacking me and pretending that because I'm very successful in this business and have adapted and changed more times than a chameleon to stay that way ...that somehow a person such as yourself with no experience is better at this than I am? Dude. Grow the fuck up. I've already educated you about the FACT that you are NOT going to be able to do email campaigns as an affiliate as you were claiming you could in the beginning. You don't know what you're talking about. I've seen these kinds of posts from other smartasses who came on the scene thinking they know more than professionals with real experience do. None of them are still around. Here's my advice to you...instead of mouthing off to people, you should do what I do when I come across someone with more experience at something: Sit down under the learning tree and check your ego. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

07-04-2015, 10:54 AM	#144
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,841	Whine and moan? LOL! Where did I whine and moan? Brother you are delusional. Good luck with your entry into the adult world. I like your cocky attitude (I have one too). Here's to you learning more about the industry and being able to back it up. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

07-04-2015, 11:16 AM	#148
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,841	Whatever NaughtyEmails. The only time I talked about "how much money I made" was to point out to you that there is a reason that people say that "there's no money in porn". They don't literally mean that there isn't ANY money. There is plenty. But it is contracting greatly. Do you really think I'm bragging to say that I used to make 7 figures a year just as an affiliate and now I don't? Hell no. That's not bragging. That's pointing out a dying business model in adult. Many of the big companies are doing almost all of their marketing in-house these days because affiliates don't have the traffic anymore and allowing affiliates to email is taboo. That's just stating FACTS. Not whining or moaning. I, and many others ARE success stories in how to continue to be successful through creating different revenue streams. If you think it was easy to watch one revenue stream that I worked to create for over a decade...suddenly dry up, you're crazy. But I didn't let it stop me. And I'm sorry if I look at disdain with yet ANOTHER post from a guy with no experience trying to tell all of us that we're doing it all wrong. Again. And I hope you do make money. I never asked you to "kiss ass". And no, I'm not surprised at people "laughing all the way to the bank". I'm one of them. Maybe you will be one day too. As for the results NOW...as you asked: I pretty plainly have said that my paysite business is still just fine. It's my affiliate side of the business that went to hell...just like EVERYBODY else did. And you aren't "interested in what's working for them". If you were you would have listened to what I told you. I AM one of "them". Instead you've spent the thread telling us that you know better and you have "clients" that you are already doing email campaigns as affiliates in the adult industry. No problem. As I said, I don't mind someone with a cocky attitude. I hope it works out for you. Good luck. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

07-04-2015, 11:21 AM	#149
The Porn Nerd Living The Dream Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Inside a Monitor Posts: 19,161	BF: Thanks for that link! If I can ask, would you recommend using an email service like YNOT or Mail Chimp? The cost for me would be $200 a month with Mail Chimp but they say unlimited emails to my 40K+ list. After reading some great advice in this thread (and others) on the subject I believe I am ready to test emails with some good offers, both for my sites and other mainstream offers. I did some research. I had used YNOT for about 1 1/2 years and sent out emails once a month to ex-Members. Plus I do a weekly newsletter. So I looked at both stats and guess what? Only about 2% of subscribers UNsubscribed. Meaning, my lists are still big and people were not opting out like crazy. Even a couple hundred only constitutes a tiny fraction. Time to go for it! __________________ My Affiliate Programs: Porn Nerd Cash \| Porn Showcase \| Aggressive Gold (Coming Soon) Over 90 paysites to promote! ICQ: 579915163 Skype: peabodymedia

07-04-2015, 11:25 AM	#150
NaughtyEmails Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Florida...currently Posts: 47	Again, I already said my experience in adult is limited. But I've been in IM consulting for a decade...working with the best minds in the industry. For you to say that has absolutely zero carryover to Adult is just silly. It's still IM. But anyhow, let's put it behind us. We don't see eye-to-eye and that's perfectly fine with me.