got obama'ed today - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Grapesoda · 03-01-2015, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yeah, people who work for other people in jobs that have health insurance probably don't notice it at all.

But everyone that I'm talking about are people who pay their own insurance. And maybe I'm wrong...but I haven't heard of any big companies that pay for employee insurance all happy over lower premiums.

Am I wrong about that? Or have the vast majority of people actually seen a decrease in their "health care" costs like we were told that this was needed so badly for in the first place.

His promise of lowering premiums was supposed to happen right off the bat. And it was supposed to be only the beginning of all the good news...
But instead of me or you or some of the guys on here who think I'm crazy talking about it, let's hear from the man himself:

honestly Robbie many of the people I know have employees and they are VERY unhappy with affordable health care, cost are going through the roof to cover their employees.. .and like you my monthly was $329 I think in 2013 with a $2500 deductible... my ins was canceled due to Obama care... the new policy is $517 per month with a $5000 deductible with prescriptions going up 600%% .. I do know people that are getting coverage at reduced rates however they all make about 25K-30K a year if that

kane · 03-01-2015, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yeah, people who work for other people in jobs that have health insurance probably don't notice it at all.

But everyone that I'm talking about are people who pay their own insurance. And maybe I'm wrong...but I haven't heard of any big companies that pay for employee insurance all happy over lower premiums.

Am I wrong about that? Or have the vast majority of people actually seen a decrease in their "health care" costs like we were told that this was needed so badly for in the first place.

His promise of lowering premiums was supposed to happen right off the bat. And it was supposed to be only the beginning of all the good news...
But instead of me or you or some of the guys on here who think I'm crazy talking about it, let's hear from the man himself:

This is from one of the articles I linked. I looks like rates are still on the rise, but as an average across the entire spectrum the rise has slowed. However people are now spending more of their income on insurance premiums and deductibles than ever before. Here is a quote:

"Looking at trends in private employer-based health insurance from 2003 to 2013, this issue brief finds that premiums for family coverage increased 73 percent over the past decade?faster than median family income. Employees? contributions to their premiums climbed by 93 percent over that time frame. At the same time, deductibles more than doubled in both large and small firms. Workers are thus paying more but getting less protective benefits. However, the study also finds that while premiums continued to rise through 2013, the rate of growth slowed between 2010 and 2013, following implementation of the Affordable Care Act. While families experienced slower growth in premium contributions and deductibles over this period, sluggish growth in median family income means families are paying more in premiums and deductibles as a share of their income than ever before.:

kane · 03-01-2015, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

honestly Robbie many of the people I know have employees and they are VERY unhappy with affordable health care, cost are going through the roof to cover their employees.. .and like you my monthly was $329 I think in 2013 with a $2500 deductible... my ins was canceled due to Obama care... the new policy is $517 per month with a $5000 deductible with prescriptions going up 600%% .. I do know people that are getting coverage at reduced rates however they all make about 25K-30K a year if that

Therein is the rub of Obamacare.

Before Obamacare there was a group of people who worked, but didn't get health insurance through their work yet they didn't make enough money to buy insurance so they went without. Those people now get cheap or free medicaid. However, there is now a group of people that work for themselves or own businesses and they make too much money to get any kind of subsidies on their insurance so they have seen their rates go up. In some cases by quite a bit.

AmeliaG · 03-02-2015, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

Therein is the rub of Obamacare.

Before Obamacare there was a group of people who worked, but didn't get health insurance through their work yet they didn't make enough money to buy insurance so they went without. Those people now get cheap or free medicaid. However, there is now a group of people that work for themselves or own businesses and they make too much money to get any kind of subsidies on their insurance so they have seen their rates go up. In some cases by quite a bit.

Or they get fined for not wanting to go on welfare.

How uncompassionate is a system which literally punishes people for not wanting to be a burden on society?

kane · 03-02-2015, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Or they get fined for not wanting to go on welfare.

How uncompassionate is a system which literally punishes people for not wanting to be a burden on society?

If I am being 100% honest, someone who doesn't didn't make enough money to buy health insurance (and didn't get it through their job) pre-Obamacare who doesn't then take free healthcare once it is available is just dumb. There is nothing noble about them not wanting to be a burden on the system because what is likely going to happen is that at some point they are going to get sick or injured and end up in a hospital where they will rack up some nice medical bills and then other people are going to pay for them.

If they don't want to be a burden on the system, I understand that. But the way to do it is to take the health insurance and work harder to get a better job and make more money so you can get employer provided insurance or pay for you insurance. Don't risk it and potentially end up costing society even more.

Grapesoda · 03-02-2015, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

Therein is the rub of Obamacare.

Before Obamacare there was a group of people who worked, but didn't get health insurance through their work yet they didn't make enough money to buy insurance so they went without. Those people now get cheap or free medicaid. However, there is now a group of people that work for themselves or own businesses and they make too much money to get any kind of subsidies on their insurance so they have seen their rates go up. In some cases by quite a bit.

just think of it as a 15% penalty tax for working hard

Vendzilla · 03-02-2015, 11:27 AM

You guys think it's bad now? Wait till the employer mandate is allowed to go thru, it's going to get worse.

Since day one I have been against this law, it was the government regulating the insurance companies, not about health coverage. The Insurance companies give money to politicians to make them BILLIONS of our money.

The prices of more than 1,200 generic medications increased an average of 448 percent between July 2013 and July 2014, Sanders said during the hearing, citing federal records.
Generic Drug Price Sticker Shock Prompts Probe by Congress - ABC News

Robbie · 03-02-2015, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

The prices of more than 1,200 generic medications increased an average of 448 percent between July 2013 and July 2014, Sanders said during the hearing, citing federal records.
Generic Drug Price Sticker Shock Prompts Probe by Congress - ABC News

Don't you understand? We are subsidizing the rest of the world...because that's what I'm supposed to do with the money I earn.

You need to stop being a Fox News zombie Vendzilla. You sound like one of the lost Koch Brothers or maybe a cousin of George Bush.

Don't you understand that when Pres. Obama said prices would come down...that's actually politician-speak for "go up".
And don't you know this is nothing new?
Why...insurance premiums rise greatly every year. And drug prices go up over 400% every year. It's just normal.

What? You never saw that before?
That's because you are too busy listening to Fox News.

Goddamnit Vendzilla...fall in line. The ruling class in Washington has pronounced the way things are and that's the way it is.

Pay no attention to the same politicians saying the exact opposite thing back when they passed the law.
That doesn't matter anymore.

ALL that matters is that we've taken a "first step" to "fixing" "health care".
Now people won't DIE from cancer anymore (once you have ObamaCare, cancer no longer can kill you).

Yes, for a few years we are going to all get fucked hard on insurance. But maybe this will lead to "single pay" and then we can all get fucked harder on our income taxes (well, those of us that actually pay them).

Now get your head out of your ass and get with the program!

Repeat after me:
"I pledge allegiance to the lifetime/career politicians in Washington D.C."

arock10 · 03-02-2015, 11:58 AM

just remember, corporations are people, money is speech... and now corporations can be religious too!

merica fuck yea

you wanna change america... change the supreme court to 5 liberals and 4 conservatives. Then campaign finance can be reformed.

Robbie · 03-02-2015, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

you wanna change america... change the supreme court to 5 liberals and 4 conservatives. Then campaign finance can be reformed.

So you think Democrats aren't in the pockets of corporations and that if there was just one more "liberal" judge that something would actually happen?

The world doesn't work that way anymore. "Liberal", "Conservative", "Republican" and "Democrat" are words that change in their meaning all the time.

The ONLY thing we can trust from The Supreme Court is that they take their vows to heart and interpret the meaning of the Constitution without adding their own political views to it.

Other than that? It's a crapshoot.

AmeliaG · 03-02-2015, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

If I am being 100% honest, someone who doesn't didn't make enough money to buy health insurance (and didn't get it through their job) pre-Obamacare who doesn't then take free healthcare once it is available is just dumb. There is nothing noble about them not wanting to be a burden on the system because what is likely going to happen is that at some point they are going to get sick or injured and end up in a hospital where they will rack up some nice medical bills and then other people are going to pay for them.

If they don't want to be a burden on the system, I understand that. But the way to do it is to take the health insurance and work harder to get a better job and make more money so you can get employer provided insurance or pay for you insurance. Don't risk it and potentially end up costing society even more.

So it is better for people to be a burden all the time, including catastrophe, and not just in extreme circumstances and everyone who works hard and has some luck should pay for this to make insurance companies richer?

How is your basic math telling you that paying all the time + catastrophe < just catastrophe alone?

kane · 03-02-2015, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

So it is better for people to be a burden all the time, including catastrophe, and not just in extreme circumstances and everyone who works hard and has some luck should pay for this to make insurance companies richer?

How is your basic math telling you that paying all the time + catastrophe < just catastrophe alone?

My point is that we are going to pay for it one way or another. Are there people that will stay on it forever? Sure, I don't doubt that there will be. Those are people who likely would have been in the system anyway and there is little we can do about it. However, I think there are a decent number of people who are young, or just had some bad luck etc and are working at improving themselves and helping them with health insurance isn't a bad thing.

Robbie · 03-02-2015, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

However, I think there are a decent number of people who are young, or just had some bad luck etc and are working at improving themselves and helping them with health insurance isn't a bad thing.

I'll bet there are lots of people working to improve themselves that could also use some help paying the rest of their bills. Maybe a little spending money for the weekend. How about vacations? A little help with a new car?

Look, I know what you are saying...but I'll say this again...I wasn't put on this Earth to be a slave. My work should pay for MY needs and MY family.

Not yours or a bunch of "young people" who just need some "help".

Throughout mankind's history people have gotten by and did what they had to do.
Now, all of a sudden...people just can't make it without other people taking care of them?

Amelia is right. The prevailing attitude that it's okay to take other people's money to pay the bills because a person just can't do it themselves...is fucking up our society.

If I CHOOSE to help someone not in my immediate family, I will do so through charitable acts.
Instead I am being FORCED.

That's not "helping". That's getting robbed.

kane · 03-02-2015, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'll bet there are lots of people working to improve themselves that could also use some help paying the rest of their bills. Maybe a little spending money for the weekend. How about vacations? A little help with a new car?

Look, I know what you are saying...but I'll say this again...I wasn't put on this Earth to be a slave. My work should pay for MY needs and MY family.

Not yours or a bunch of "young people" who just need some "help".

Throughout mankind's history people have gotten by and did what they had to do.
Now, all of a sudden...people just can't make it without other people taking care of them?

Amelia is right. The prevailing attitude that it's okay to take other people's money to pay the bills because a person just can't do it themselves...is fucking up our society.

If I CHOOSE to help someone not in my immediate family, I will do so through charitable acts.
Instead I am being FORCED.

That's not "helping". That's getting robbed.

In theory one way to solve the problem is to just eliminate any kind of safety net or welfare type programs. Just get rid of all of them and people can take care of their own just like they did in the past.

To me one of the problems with all of these safety net things is that they have now begun subsidizing businesses. If there was no food stamps or welfare or housing assistance etc people would demand better wages because they wouldn't have any other option. They couldn't go to work and make very little then get a bunch of welfare help and actually live a decent life and they have little motivation to improve themselves.

tony286 · 03-02-2015, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

To me one of the problems with all of these safety net things is that they have now begun subsidizing businesses. If there was no food stamps or welfare or housing assistance etc people would demand better wages because they wouldn't have any other option. They couldn't go to work and make very little then get a bunch of welfare help and actually live a decent life .

Bingo !!!!!

Robbie · 03-02-2015, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

In theory one way to solve the problem is to just eliminate any kind of safety net or welfare type programs. Just get rid of all of them and people can take care of their own just like they did in the past.

To me one of the problems with all of these safety net things is that they have now begun subsidizing businesses. If there was no food stamps or welfare or housing assistance etc people would demand better wages because they wouldn't have any other option. They couldn't go to work and make very little then get a bunch of welfare help and actually live a decent life and they have little motivation to improve themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Bingo !!!!!

Great point.

I'm not for seeing people suffer...but it's just human nature to need to be motivated. That's why they call it "motivation".

People will work harder, try harder. And the people that mentally or physically can't take care of themselves...we should have programs to take care of them.

But for every able-bodied man and woman? They need to get their asses to work.

And the ONLY way to truly "demand" higher wages from your employer is to EARN that ability to say "I DESERVE a raise". Which is the age old motivation to better yourself.

If our society would get back to that way of thinking, I believe that we would move forward.

AmeliaG · 03-03-2015, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

In theory one way to solve the problem is to just eliminate any kind of safety net or welfare type programs. Just get rid of all of them and people can take care of their own just like they did in the past.

To me one of the problems with all of these safety net things is that they have now begun subsidizing businesses. If there was no food stamps or welfare or housing assistance etc people would demand better wages because they wouldn't have any other option. They couldn't go to work and make very little then get a bunch of welfare help and actually live a decent life and they have little motivation to improve themselves.

You are exactly right that many businesses, not just insurance companies, look to constant welfare to line their own pockets.

My personal belief is that the larger society should provide a safety trampoline, not a net.

If someone falls on hard times or catastrophe and they need help getting a roof over their head or paying for surgery or education, I am all for it. But the idea should be that everyone should have both hope and motivation to make a better life.

Insurance offers peace of mind for those who have it, but it costs more than healthcare because it is an additional service on top of healthcare. That is not a luxury the average 24-year-old requires.

Do I think society should step up for someone in serious temporary need? Yes.

Do I think society should divert trillions of dollars to specific private industries on a constant basis? No.

One of the problems with ACA is that it aggressively destigmatizes welfare as a lifestyle choice. In fact, the ACA attitude is that anyone who wants to earn his or her keep is a dumbass chump. Whether someone is rich or poor, that is a very upsetting view to people who have a work ethic.

tony286 · 03-03-2015, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Great point.

I'm not for seeing people suffer...but it's just human nature to need to be motivated. That's why they call it "motivation".

People will work harder, try harder. And the people that mentally or physically can't take care of themselves...we should have programs to take care of them.

But for every able-bodied man and woman? They need to get their asses to work.

And the ONLY way to truly "demand" higher wages from your employer is to EARN that ability to say "I DESERVE a raise". Which is the age old motivation to better yourself.

If our society would get back to that way of thinking, I believe that we would move forward.

For the avg person, its a myth if you work hard you will get raises. Those days are over, the main thing that matters now is share holder value. Employment is just an expense to keep as low as possible. Look at the guy who walked 20 miles a day to go to work. Hard worker,never missed a day of work in 10 yrs. He worked at that factory for 10 yrs and was making $10.55 an hour.
I made 5 cents more an hour the first time I walked on a factory floor in 1984. The game has changed.

tony286 · 03-03-2015, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

You are exactly right that many businesses, not just insurance companies, look to constant welfare to line their own pockets.

My personal belief is that the larger society should provide a safety trampoline, not a net.

If someone falls on hard times or catastrophe and they need help getting a roof over their head or paying for surgery or education, I am all for it. But the idea should be that everyone should have both hope and motivation to make a better life.

Insurance offers peace of mind for those who have it, but it costs more than healthcare because it is an additional service on top of healthcare. That is not a luxury the average 24-year-old requires.

Do I think society should step up for someone in serious temporary need? Yes.

Do I think society should divert trillions of dollars to specific private industries on a constant basis? No.

One of the problems with ACA is that it aggressively destigmatizes welfare as a lifestyle choice. In fact, the ACA attitude is that anyone who wants to earn his or her keep is a dumbass chump. Whether someone is rich or poor, that is a very upsetting view to people who have a work ethic.

ACA doesnt do that. Sorry its just about health insurance. Are you saying all the other countries like canada, japan, europe are all just welfare babies?

arock10 · 03-03-2015, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

So it is better for people to be a burden all the time, including catastrophe, and not just in extreme circumstances and everyone who works hard and has some luck should pay for this to make insurance companies richer?

How is your basic math telling you that paying all the time + catastrophe < just catastrophe alone?

with insurance you can get preventative healthcare versus just waiting until you are half dead and going to the ER

so yes the basic math is easy

pimpmaster9000 · 03-03-2015, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

yup.. big time....first cypionate was $20 per bottle with my health ins... now it's $198 with the NEW health ins that's over $160 per month higher per month, with double the deductible BTW

then this: I have ocular rosacea so I need to take 250 mg Erythromycin twice a day ... no big deal a script is $20... errrrr was $20, now with Obama care $220

is that a 10ml bottle of cyp or are we talking 1ml?

1ml in my country is around 1$ we dont have cyp we have enanthate...

Robbie · 03-03-2015, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

For the avg person, its a myth if you work hard you will get raises.
Look at the guy who walked 20 miles a day to go to work. Hard worker,never missed a day of work in 10 yrs. He worked at that factory for 10 yrs and was making $10.55 an hour.
I made 5 cents more an hour the first time I walked on a factory floor in 1984. The game has changed.

Nothing has changed Tony.

As an employer, I could give a rat's ass if a guy walks to work, takes the bus, arrives in a limousine, or crawls in.

What on Earth does that have to do with anything?

The salary shouldn't be based on how "hard" they work, or what their transportation situation is (hell, the guy was lucky they GAVE him a job knowing that he might not be dependable to get to work). Most people aren't digging freakin' ditches in the hot sun. They are working in air conditioned work environments. And the majority of them are "working for the weekend".

No Tony, walking to work doesn't mean jack shit.
What gets you a RAISE at work is going in and being VALUABLE above and beyond the current shit grunt work that a person may be doing.

Taking classes after work to educate yourself, being THE guy at work who doesn't fuck off half the day, etc.

THAT is called motivation. Walking 5 miles uphill both ways to work doesn't make you worthy of making more money. It just means that you don't have the intelligence to work your way up the ladder and buy a car.

Grapesoda · 03-03-2015, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifissio

is that a 10ml bottle of cyp or are we talking 1ml?

1ml in my country is around 1$ we dont have cyp we have enanthate...

yes 10ml, 200mg per

AmeliaG · 03-03-2015, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

ACA doesnt do that. Sorry its just about health insurance. Are you saying all the other countries like canada, japan, europe are all just welfare babies?

Do you seriously not understand the difference between universal healthcare, where everyone gets access to the same socialized thing, and people being forced to buy ...

Actually, remind me what you do in this industry? Besides trolling a thread like this by pretending to not understand the simplest things.

I know your dad made lots of money from insurance, but I have no idea what you do.

AmeliaG · 03-03-2015, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

with insurance you can get preventative healthcare versus just waiting until you are half dead and going to the ER

so yes the basic math is easy

What are you thinking of as preventative healthcare?

If you mean people who couldn't afford a doctor visit at all, there was already Medi-Cal and similar.

If you mean people making $30 k to $60 k pet year, average Americans, then coming up with $50 to $150 for a doctor visit is totally within their means.

Take the $5 k to $15 k a family would spend yearly on insurance and spend it on better food and a gym membership and everyone wins with real preventative care.

tony286 · 03-03-2015, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Do you seriously not understand the difference between universal healthcare, where everyone gets access to the same socialized thing, and people being forced to buy ...

Actually, remind me what you do in this industry? Besides trolling a thread like this by pretending to not understand the simplest things.

I know your dad made lots of money from insurance, but I have no idea what you do.

My father didn't make a lots of money. He worked for an insurance company. Disagreeing with you trolling? I didn't get personal or nasty with you. My wife and have had bbw sites over 14 years.

tony286 · 03-03-2015, 08:30 PM

I know ive said this before but Im done with political arguments. It gets too personal and its not worth it when it means nothing in the end. I wish everyone a good night.

pimpmaster9000 · 03-04-2015, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

yes 10ml, 200mg per

well 20$/10ml was surprisingly cheap for the USA even when its with health insurance...it was only 2x more expensive than in my country I guess that was a fair price...

erythromicin on the other hand is only 2$ in my country...your starting price before obamacare was 20$ this is a rip off before as well...220$ for it is medical terrorism

man you guys have a cruel and evil government

arock10 · 03-04-2015, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

What are you thinking of as preventative healthcare?

If you mean people who couldn't afford a doctor visit at all, there was already Medi-Cal and similar.

If you mean people making $30 k to $60 k pet year, average Americans, then coming up with $50 to $150 for a doctor visit is totally within their means.

Take the $5 k to $15 k a family would spend yearly on insurance and spend it on better food and a gym membership and everyone wins with real preventative care.

Sure let's change the mandate to a requirement to eat healthy and go to the gym

AmeliaG · 03-04-2015, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

Sure let's change the mandate to a requirement to eat healthy and go to the gym

Obviously I don't think that should be mandated.

I'm just saying that is what I think of as preventative care.

What do you think of as preventative care? You mention it in the context of ACA, but I assume insurance doesn't generally cover good groceries or gym memberships.

BlackCrayon · 03-04-2015, 09:12 AM

if the government is going to get into the business of healthcare they need to regulate how much can be charged for what services otherwise, it just doesn't work when the insurance companies can just bump up prices for everyone when changes happen that they don't like.

MK Ultra · 03-04-2015, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

Sure let's change the mandate to a requirement to eat healthy and go to the gym

One step at a time, I'm sure that since the mandate hasn't caused an outright rebellion (as it should have) with the citizenry, the liberals in government have probably already floated that idea amongst themselves, by their philosophy it's the next logical step

REGULATE EVERYTHING

videobunch · 03-04-2015, 09:39 AM

All I know is my insurance premium has more than doubled over the last 3 yrs for less coverage. I am paying over $1200/mth for a family of 4 not to mention went from a $500 deductible to $5000. I have bad knees but now have to pay for most of it out of pocket because of the deductible.

I am sure it helped some people that could not get coverage from existing conditions OR were not paying for insurance in the first place but I feel overall the people who were paying and carried coverage on a family it hurt more than it ever helped. With more and more people being allowed to come over, I am sure it is only going to get worse as more people get it subsidized. Someone has to pay for the people who cannot afford it or unwilling to pay for it.

That is what Obama is about, helping the poor not the majority. Got get those votes somehow.

Tom_PM · 03-04-2015, 09:46 AM

Nope.

You got Private Industry'ed.

Robbie · 03-04-2015, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_PM

Nope.

You got Private Industry'ed.

We got "Middle Manned" (the Insurance Companies)

Robbie · 03-04-2015, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by videobunch

That is what Obama is about, helping the poor not the majority. Got get those votes somehow.

That's why a lot of Democrat Party economic policies are designed to increase the amount of "poor" (by U.S. definitions) people.
It increases their voter base.

AmeliaG · 03-04-2015, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by videobunch

All I know is my insurance premium has more than doubled over the last 3 yrs for less coverage. I am paying over $1200/mth for a family of 4 not to mention went from a $500 deductible to $5000. I have bad knees but now have to pay for most of it out of pocket because of the deductible.

I am sure it helped some people that could not get coverage from existing conditions OR were not paying for insurance in the first place but I feel overall the people who were paying and carried coverage on a family it hurt more than it ever helped. With more and more people being allowed to come over, I am sure it is only going to get worse as more people get it subsidized. Someone has to pay for the people who cannot afford it or unwilling to pay for it.

That is what Obama is about, helping the poor not the majority. Got get those votes somehow.

There were already programs in place to help the poor. ACA is about robbing the middle class to make wealthy insurance companies and Big Pharma richer. And, as Robbie pointed out, to expand the voter base of people forced into being dependent on welfare.

03-02-2015, 11:27 AM	#107
Vendzilla Biker Gnome Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cell#324 Posts: 23,202	You guys think it's bad now? Wait till the employer mandate is allowed to go thru, it's going to get worse. Since day one I have been against this law, it was the government regulating the insurance companies, not about health coverage. The Insurance companies give money to politicians to make them BILLIONS of our money. The prices of more than 1,200 generic medications increased an average of 448 percent between July 2013 and July 2014, Sanders said during the hearing, citing federal records. Generic Drug Price Sticker Shock Prompts Probe by Congress - ABC News __________________ Webair died? Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants think about that

03-02-2015, 11:58 AM	#109
arock10 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,218	just remember, corporations are people, money is speech... and now corporations can be religious too! merica fuck yea you wanna change america... change the supreme court to 5 liberals and 4 conservatives. Then campaign finance can be reformed. __________________ Sup

03-04-2015, 09:12 AM	#131
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,624	if the government is going to get into the business of healthcare they need to regulate how much can be charged for what services otherwise, it just doesn't work when the insurance companies can just bump up prices for everyone when changes happen that they don't like. __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

03-04-2015, 09:39 AM	#133
videobunch Largest Content Provider Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: www.VideoBunch.com Posts: 770	All I know is my insurance premium has more than doubled over the last 3 yrs for less coverage. I am paying over $1200/mth for a family of 4 not to mention went from a $500 deductible to $5000. I have bad knees but now have to pay for most of it out of pocket because of the deductible. I am sure it helped some people that could not get coverage from existing conditions OR were not paying for insurance in the first place but I feel overall the people who were paying and carried coverage on a family it hurt more than it ever helped. With more and more people being allowed to come over, I am sure it is only going to get worse as more people get it subsidized. Someone has to pay for the people who cannot afford it or unwilling to pay for it. That is what Obama is about, helping the poor not the majority. Got get those votes somehow. __________________ Kevin www.VideoBunch.com Email - Kevin @@ Aned .com ICQ - 364230504 Skype - videobunch NOW 30000+ DVD titles with 150,0000 scenes and growing. We are your one stop shop for 100% legal content with no BS or excuses. With 13+yrs experience, we are still going strong. We will beat any Competitors Guaranteed

03-04-2015, 09:46 AM	#134
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Nope. You got Private Industry'ed. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

03-03-2015, 08:30 PM	#127
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	I know ive said this before but Im done with political arguments. It gets too personal and its not worth it when it means nothing in the end. I wish everyone a good night.