cayme

Please specify pros and cos you know about living and doing business in EU and US

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k0nr4d

EU for life, because it's going to be able to get in your car, drive 3 hours and be in another country

US for business because it's waaaaaaaay easier to run a business there. Less socialist.

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MaDalton

Czech Republic: Horny women, cheap beer, low taxes, liberal attitude - I'm good

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cayme

yeah, i guess one really needs to be specific about Eu countries, since Cz is quite different from UK, French or Sweden.
cz must be winner for regulations/state goods ratio in eu. but yeah, that's what i'm asking to explain to me

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MaDalton

that is absolutely true - you have to look at each country individually

for example about what Konrad said: I don't have many problems running a business here in CZ and this year it got even easier - like for example you don't have to come up anymore with $10,000 to open a limited company.

And I just give my tax accountant power of attorney and he does everything for me - no fighting with authorities myself.

I can only recommend CZ - when you can deal with cold winters and the language

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eipstudios

EU

Safer for Black People
No Hillbillies or Racist ED people
Police don't kill people for sport.
No Guns
Separation of Church and State. The real type.
Sex and Nudity is normal
No daily school shootings
Healthcare
Education
Healthy living and lifestyle
Women rights
Low Crime Rate

Etc.....

mineistaken

Eu is not a country! you must be American...
There are 28 countries with different laws, human development index, dong business index and so on.

RandyRandy

So many factors. I've lived in the US most of my life, but studied and worked in France, lived in Colombia, South America for a few years and now I'm in Asia.

I look at it this way: If I have $1 million liquid and make $100,000 a year, neither Europe nor the US would be my first 2 choices. It would be Northern South American and SouthEast Asia.

AntonMG

Lived in France, UK, Spain and Canada. I think Canada is the best place for family life (from what I've seen).
But as a single... Europe any time

aka123

EU is not uniform, depends about what country we are talking about.

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cayme

can i say there're 50 states in US with kinda different options like that? )

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Manfap

Can set up a company in a day in the UK. Not all EU countries are difficult.

Nederlands was pretty easy to get everything setup as well.

Spain though..... well that's a different story.

RummyBoy

I would stay as far away from the EU/UK/US as possible..... they're in serious decline and they're building a berlin wall to trap people into their system and freedoms are being pulled away from people left, right and centre. For me, id look at basically every metric and every aspect of a country from the quality of the air, to strength of the economy.

US/UK economies are not doing badly but they're two of the biggest debtor nations in the world..... i'd run a mile from any debtor nation. The whole FATCA thing, the new taxation rules they're discussing at the G8 now, increased regulation, increased militarization.

Randy is about right...... south America and south east asia (infact, Id go broader Asia/Pacific). These would be good choices.

cayme

what about Jp or Australia for living and business?

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RummyBoy

Just drop my take.... Japan and (even China) good - both awesome for living and there. I've met some of the most amazing, friendly, generous, intelligent people in the world. I don't think any other peoples compare to them if I generalize and im a big fan of Chinese and Japanese food.

China doesn't have much of a rule of law in business but is a BIG creditor nation. It's second largest economy in the world (by GDP) and has many times more foreign exchange reserves than the second biggest holder. Super strong economy and super strong opportunity long term but its very far from western ways of doing things and the pollution is terrible.... awful in some cities.

Japan is a very hi-tech, funky place but the big downside and if you've got some cash you might find it a bit cheaper these days as the Japanese yen has fallen about 30% or so in the last year vs the USD. However, the downside is that japan is in some trouble economically and is in a recession. Demographics in Japan are not favorable economically either (aging population). The other thing that puts me off is that Japan has the highest Debt/GBP ratio in the world. So for me, it would come back to the debt issue.

Australia is great but very reliant on commodities and personally, I sometimes find the aussies a bit noisy, grating and of lower intelligence (if I generalize) and I know some aussie is gonna kick my ass now. That said, it's a wonderful place, very beautiful, diverse but taxation is high. No language barrier either...

Women are gorgeous in all three. The other aspect is political - I don't believe that either Australia, China or Japan are countries with many enemies and plus they all seem to have a high level of self sufficiency from food/energy point of view. So if you think about a longer term perspective, that might be something you would consider.

Adult-biz

Are you having a fucking laugh?
Some of the above in Europe are shocking.

Klen

Unless you lived for atleast one year in each EU country then this statement is total generalization.

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Klen

Like? ....

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Adult-biz

Some of the Eastern & Central European countries have massive social problems such as poverty, crime, unemployment, limited access to education and enormous debts.

You think otherwise?

RummyBoy

Fair comment but I should specify Im dead against UK/US. When it comes to EU, I am generalizing but im talking about countries which fall into the EU simply from an economic point of view as a whole ie that's what puts me off. I have been to most EU countries.

EU looks better long term versus the other two, but there are still high levels of indebtedness and some early signs of deflation.

Within EU there would be some choices that would be better than others for sure, but assuming there is only one choice I wouldn't choose any of them as long term Asia/Pacific region looks a lot better... just my and only because he's thinking of pros and cons.

Klen

Some,not all.Details,they matter.

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Adult-biz

I didn`t say all. The person quoted EU with a list of positives and countries in the EU such as Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria etc certainly do not tick all those boxes.

Klen

Well one of important factors is how mobile you are,so if one county start to become bad,you can easily move to another one.Advantage of EU is how it hassle free moving for EU citizens,meaning you dont need to pass immigration bureaucracy as non-EU citizen,

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Klen

Every basket of apples have bad apples,that doesn't mean how that basket is bad.

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Adult-biz

You`re agreeing with what I am saying. The person makes some ridiculous blanket statement about EU countries meeting those requirements when you and I both know that is not the case.

Klen

Well depend what POV you have,if you look as organization,then what he says it's true,if you look individually country by country then not.After all you could have same approach by telling how north of single country is great,but south of it is complete backward.

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romeo22

Us is like living on the other planet. Huge market with a lot fo benefits

Adult-biz

We are going round in circles. I quoted 3 countries in the European Union that have enormous social issues. If you took the posters word for it you would believe that these are good countries to live in because crime is low, the lifestyle is good, healthcare is high on the agenda and the system delivers a high standard of education to young people.

But yes...good and bad everywhere my friend. I don`t disagree with that.

Klen

Yes US was always like "number one" market but i think EU and rest of the world is catching it pretty good.

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Sid70

Depends where your pocket is big enough to pay.

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hellboy78

depend what business you want to do
I will never suggest you to open an italian restaurant in Italy

in my experience

- US come first, huge market, millions of customers, low taxes
european taxes are the same, almost same law
- Germany too, great european market, high competition
- France too.
- Italy.....depend on your business and if you are able to manage with dumb policemen and gov offices
- Swiss, amazing, low taxes as US, but small market, and hard to compete in EU prices because there is custom between you and rest of Europe.
But you have a straight contact with Swiss Authorities for your company and tax management. The only problem you can have is to have a bad accountant that stole your money.
- Spain......no idea
- East Europe.......I prefer not to set a company there, countries in motion, rules and law can change very fast.

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darkman1986

I'd always prefer the US

Tom-LifeSelector

In the Eu we have better beers and Scandinavian beauties

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RummyBoy

Well the US is one of only two countries (out of more than 200) which levies tax based on citizenship rather than residence as most countries do around the world. US taxes aren't exactly low, rather I'd say they are around mid-range but it doesn't matter because all US citizens have to pay them and it's becoming more and more difficult for US citizens to lose their citizenship by choice (think Eduardo Saverin, Facebook cofounder). As well as making it very difficult for US citizens to have bank accounts or use related facilities located outside the United States due to new reporting requirements like FATCA.

Anytime a government is trying to lock its citizens in behind a wall.... that concerns me because it talks about freedom. The US government is simply in the process of herding all their citizens into a large pen, locking the gate whilst increasing militarization, surveillance to manage them and to keep them in. In the words of Doug Casey, the US government views its citizens as milk cows and pretty soon, they're going to be slaughtered like beef cows.

From a business point of view, regulation is high and getting higher all the time - more difficult to do business. Since the US economy is based upon consumption, then I guess the millions of customers is a big advantage. However, long term that is not sustainable.

The US is, however, a major leader in technology, self sufficient in terms of food and energy and is still the largest economy in the world by GDP. However, those stats are pretty much trounced (for me at least) by the terrible Debt/GDP and total debt figures. In fact, the US is the largest debtor nation in the history of the world.

Official figures put US debt at around 17 Trillion but if you factor in, the so called unfunded liabilities which will be coming due, the real figure is something like $100 Trillion plus and today that number is regarded as conservative.

So whilst I always told people the US was a good choice even as recently as 10 years back. Going forward I would regard it as just mediocre for most people and not a good idea for business people.

Klen

There is also one paradox - US probably have best medicine in world,yet also one of the worst public health systems.

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RummyBoy

Good point - healthcare will be a top issue for many people and its crap in US. I've heard its very, very expensive in Canada.

Incidently, in spite of all the negative comment about UK - I admit they do have a superb free healthcare system (NHS) which is actually very good, pretty efficient and free.

hellboy78

in europe taxes are little bit higher than USA, we have VAT (about 20%),
but all Europe has healthcare system, free or almost free.
in UK you pay your medicines 5.95 pounds (any medicine) and doctor is free.
in Italy is almost the same, doctor is free, and with doctor paper you can buy very expensive medicine for just 2 euro.
in hospital you pay a small ticket for special visits, (free for emergencies)
same for France.....and Germany.

that's why I prefer to live in Europe...

but for business....USA is better....you need a private insurance and it's done

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Manfap

For a business sales tax(VAT) is all reclaimable though.

RummyBoy

Well Czech Republic is a great option and you would be looking at an average of 16% tax rate for individual (as Mr. Dalton will tell you).

Sure but its the NI (national insurance) which all taxpayers have to pay. One good thing about the UK is that corporate tax is 24% I believe. And if you have a disability, you get pushed onto a railway track for free (courtesy of local chavs).

Not sure I agree - unless you have to be there because your business is a bricks n mortar thing. For an online, mainstream biz id rather sit in Hong Kong or Singapore and pay a whopping 0% tax rate.

Klen

Yep,fully deductable on income tax,so in the end tax is actually lower then in USA.

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Struggle4Bucks

The reclaimable part of vat (on things you buy for your company) is most of the time peanuts compared to paying the 21% vat on what you've sold... So... vat is not so nice at all.... in the end you always pay more then you can claim back... If you can claim more vat back then you pay... then you don't have a profitable business...

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MaDalton

From a business point of view VAT doesn't cost me anything.

Every time i have to collect VAT from a client (and that happens maybe 5 times a year for me) I just pass that money to the tax office and that's it.

and i return i get VAT back for everything I buy for the company

VAT is really no problem.

And corporate tax in CZ is 19% - acceptable.

and then there are ways to also (legally) minimize your personal taxes.

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RummyBoy

Sure but personal taxes over there is like 15% or 16% right? So theoretically many people would be able to get it down to around 10% easily, and you're laughing all the way to the bank

MaDalton

unfortunately it's not so easy - the problem her is that they don't have a cap for health insurance, social insurance etc.

which means: when you earn a lot of money, you pay a lot for that.

so the solution is that (as a business owner) you pay yourself only a low salary and pay the rest by profits from your company (that you hopefully have )

but overall it's manageable and actually I don't have a problem paying my fair share.

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aka123

In B2B it might seem so, but the end price is higher for the end customer and thus impacts his buying power.

VAT decreases overal demand as higher prices for any reason.

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pornguy

There seem to be a lot of good and bad things about each country.

You just need to look at them in all the areas you like and decide which is best for you.

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MaDalton

do you really give it a lot of thought when you buy something?

in the US it annoys me cause sales tax is never included and i always get surprised when the final price is higher than i thought before.

but here VAT is always included in the price and when i buy something (privately) i never calculate the net amount and then decide not to buy it

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aka123

I won't calculate net amount as it's irrelevant when I am bying as a invidual. But it is hard not to notice that does something cost 30 euros or 35, or what ever the VAT is. You know, the price is higher, and at least I am not that rich that I could and would buy regardless of the price or how much I have money.

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Emil

What countries in the EU? I wouldn't recommend anyone to move to Sweden. Except immigrants, they get everything they need for free + more!

Sweden is horrible when it comes to business, the taxes are so fucking high, there's barely anything left.

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RummyBoy

Gee, you're an unbelievably good citizen.

A government's wet dream.....

Remind me to buy an island, set it up as a tax haven, lure webmasters over with lower tax rates and fill the island with people who don't have a problem paying their fair share.