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Old 04-15-2014, 01:50 PM   #151
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I dont think anyone was looking at them to predict their own, i think people use them to predict the trends of competitors in order to reaffirm what you may already know works or does not work.

Its a tool thats available , why not use it.

And yes you are right, a decline in traffic, the sales will eventually follow.
Agreed. I was very excited when we smoked Playboy and Penthouse on the trends. And then while we were in a maintaining phase always compared ourselves to Nubiles and Ftv. Two brands who traditionally did as well as us and were extremely well run.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:20 PM   #152
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Hey Shap, how much swagger you got?

Where's that Bugatti Veyron ??
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:28 PM   #153
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Shap: you already know the site I think you should get involved with, take over or buy out entirely. I think you could take that site, and business model, to new heights. Get Kevin and Michael involved with the billing / management and heck, see if Minnie is still around. You had a seriously good team assembled. I consider those three as three of most productive, proactive, people I've ever dealt with online -- and all ridiculously easy to work with.
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Old 04-15-2014, 03:51 PM   #154
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Shap: you already know the site I think you should get involved with, take over or buy out entirely. I think you could take that site, and business model, to new heights. Get Kevin and Michael involved with the billing / management and heck, see if Minnie is still around. You had a seriously good team assembled. I consider those three as three of most productive, proactive, people I've ever dealt with online -- and all ridiculously easy to work with.
Shap said he didn't want to 'get the band back together'. LOL But you are right, he would kill it if he did what you suggest.

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Since you didn't move it to the correct thread:

Theres a reason people launch new brands/sites, theres more money to be made in more sites than there is in putting in all your effort and time into one site, so even if you dont believe there is a cap on the one site (which there is), launching more sites is always the better option once theyre at the level as most other successful ones.

While I like the positivity, your message implies that people should stick with trying to make their one site/product as big as they possibly can instead of expanding the network
Some sites, when they reach 'mega-status', can sustain a longer period of drought even if their traffic diminishes. But eventually they too will lose sales if traffic continues to drop.

But basically yes, most normal sites (sites earning under, say, $1 million a year in revenue) will reach a certain level and remain within 10% of that level almost forever. LOL This is INSANELY frustrating for those people that run a single site (especially amateurs and solo girls). They find that taking their site 'to the next level' means either endless more hours of effort (with little results) and/or doing things they really don't want to do (types of shoots, more exposure, perhaps even blackhat methods). For those people, like husband-and-wife teams, it's almost best to start another site instead of banging their heads against a wall (unless head banging is the niche, heh).
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Old 04-15-2014, 05:00 PM   #155
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The whole of the porn industry is only one company now, so that narrows down your options. Good luck with Mind Geek.
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Old 04-15-2014, 05:03 PM   #156
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Agreed. I was very excited when we smoked Playboy and Penthouse on the trends. And then while we were in a maintaining phase always compared ourselves to Nubiles and Ftv. Two brands who traditionally did as well as us and were extremely well run.
What trends did you smoke them on? I would agree that you beat them at the game but I would say it had more to do with their mismanagement and bureaucracy than necessarily beating them at a particular content niche.
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:18 PM   #157
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You would really want to get back into porn? You must be bored as fuck.
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:58 PM   #158
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The whole of the porn industry is only one company now, so that narrows down your options. Good luck with Mind Geek.
That is so far from the truth it's scary. Even Mindgeek, if they'd ever admit it, isn't as big as a whole as the industry itself is today. Companies you never even heard of 2 years ago are huge now or growing at the very least under the pay site model. Sure Mindgeek is huge but are they growing? Others are...
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:43 PM   #159
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That is so far from the truth it's scary. Even Mindgeek, if they'd ever admit it, isn't as big as a whole as the industry itself is today. Companies you never even heard of 2 years ago are huge now or growing at the very least under the pay site model. Sure Mindgeek is huge but are they growing? Others are...
If you read through xbiz bullshit, and there is A LOT of losers on there, you will see Nathan posted that Manwin represents about 5% of adult.

Now that percent can be construed a ton of ways... but for sure... they are only a small pie in the circle. But what is bothersome to me, is that small pie they represent are taking many more slices from the overall.

Take what used to be 3 slices, convert to your own, and get 1 slice. 66% loss to the overall

And a pie is only 360 degrees... and it will always stay that way. But what used to cost 15.00 in 2005 now cost 5.00... and what costs 5.00 now will cost 1.00 in 2 years... etc.
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:45 PM   #160
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If you read through xbiz bullshit, and there is A LOT of losers on there, you will see Nathan posted that Manwin represents about 5% of adult.

Now that percent can be construed a ton of ways... but for sure... they are only a small pie in the circle. But what is bothersome to me, is that small pie they represent are taking many more slices from the overall.

Take what used to be 3 slices, convert to your own, and get 1 slice. 66% loss to the overall

And a pie is only 360 degrees... and it will always stay that way. But what used to cost 15.00 in 2005 now cost 5.00... and what costs 5.00 now will cost 1.00 in 2 years... etc.
Are you talking banana cream? Pumpkin? Boston Cream? How about apple? Because if it is any pie containing fruit then right there that is going to mess your math up completely.

At what point is everything going to be free?

Wait...

Isn't it all free now anyway?

My head is spinning 360 degrees. I feel like a clown just pie'd me in the face!
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:48 PM   #161
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:53 PM   #162
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Are you talking banana cream? Pumpkin? Boston Cream? How about apple? Because if it is any pie containing fruit then right there that is going to mess your math up completely.

At what point is everything going to be free?

Wait...

Isn't it all free now anyway?

My head is spinning 360 degrees. I feel like a clown just pie'd me in the face!
I actually know you are serious in that you are getting traffic from tubes. I'm just saying your traffic is now at the expense of others, and mine... just uploaded a couple today.

Thriving industries grow... dying industries go down. Right now... adult is on the decline in a BIG way. Doesn't really matter anyways, it's just porn after all.
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:00 AM   #163
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I actually know you are serious in that you are getting traffic from tubes. I'm just saying your traffic is now at the expense of others, and mine... just uploaded a couple today.

Thriving industries grow... dying industries go down. Right now... adult is on the decline in a BIG way. Doesn't really matter anyways, it's just porn after all.
Disagree.

The value of tube traffic has gone down. My partner Spike says tubes will be like tgp is now in a year or two and I have to agree. The writing is already on the wall if you have been following that xbiz thread etc.

Nothing we ever did or currently do on tubes was ever "at your expense" in any way whatsoever. You were and are free to reap the rewards or suffer the indignities any way you see fit. We have every right to compete in the reality of the market as do you. By the logic of what you are implying, if we load more clips than you do then you are actually getting traffic at OUR expense.

Adult is not on any decline last time I looked. Consolidation perhaps, but that is true for every industry cycle. Get over it or find your place in it.
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:54 AM   #164
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Nathan posted that Manwin represents about 5% of adult.
Now that percent can be construed a ton of ways...
I think 5% may be accurate, Nathan is not a type giving out fake data on purpose. "M" may own a nice set of tubes and pay sites, still if you consider xvideos, xhamster etc. etc. "M" does not own, I think "M" owns 30% max of tube traffic (Nathan once mentioned this too), and I don't think "M" it owns even that % of pay sites.
Tubes are not the only way to make money in adult, or "M" would be at 30% of revenue... but considering all of the top cam and dating sites are not owned by Manwin/MindGeek (I remind that AFF makes $60M a year with streamray alone, this is in public records since it was a public company), you have to split this 30% with mfc's, streamate's, aff's, imlive's, awe jasmin's etc., then dating, and you easily end up with 5% figure of revenue or profits.
Now if 12billion total adult sales is true (I think it's too much, but if it includes japan...maybe...), 5% for "M" it is $600M. Is "M" making $600M a year?
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:58 AM   #165
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The decline has made it so you can't reach the same heights, that is all.

And to say it hasn't declined is just flat out wrong. or a lie to not scare off potential affiliates ;)
It is probably a lot harder to start off now. For those already in the game, its easier to complain and blame Mindgeek then to recognize that as the business model changes, as demand for content changes, if one does not try new things and try to improve then sales are going to go down.

We have more members now then we did 5 years ago because we started producing more content that members wanted and we changed how we get our traffic. It is possible to reach the same heights if you know what you are doing.
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Old 04-16-2014, 07:05 AM   #166
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I commend you guys on doing a fantastic job with branding and search for "nubile films" is indeed increasing in popularity. But the google trends are skewed as Pseudonymous pointed out, by the original "nubiles.net" and the increased video offerings. In other words, when users are searching for "nubile films", this includes the group looking for films from nubiles.net and not just nubilefilms.com. It also includes pirate and "free" searches, so I tend not to rely on it.

If you trend "joymii videos" and "nubile videos", you kill us for the same reason.
It does not matter if the google trends are skewed because the group searching for nubile films (with the space) who might have been searching for nubiles.net end up at nubilefilms.com and buy a membership. Thats more money in my pocket.
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:46 AM   #167
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once you find you partner or aquire your new business, let me know if your going to be hiring or willing to take on an apprentice
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:43 PM   #168
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Shap, we're still waiting to learn about "how much swagger you got"

Please, don't leave us hanging.
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:38 PM   #169
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Hey Shap, how much swagger you got?

Where's that Bugatti Veyron ??
458 good enough?
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:44 PM   #170
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It does not matter if the google trends are skewed because the group searching for nubile films (with the space) who might have been searching for nubiles.net end up at nubilefilms.com and buy a membership. Thats more money in my pocket.
Agreed. I'm not knocking you guys (in fact, I complimented) and I wished we had the same ability to piggy back on a brand name. Please see the original context. We were demonstrating one tool to benchmark performance.

As you and Sean said, all that matters at the end of the day is to make more money than you did before. But you still get a kick out of beating a competitor. This is one way to benchmark. And as an employee, I'm not privy to financials so I use it to benchmark my performance, as well as get insight on our competitors.

I'm not here to swing my dick around. I'm just an employee who wants to do his job better. I laid out my approach and how I interpret the data, hoping to learn from constructive feedback. If you like to discuss and share approaches so we may both learn, you and Kristin have my skype and email. I'm always open to new ideas and I'm always open to sharing what I learn with you.
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:03 PM   #171
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very disappointed in you Shap

458 is raggedy

was hoping you had the Range Rover AutoBiography, Bugatti Veyron,F12 Berlinetta,Bentley & a Sunseeker Predator 130.
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:51 PM   #172
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can't wait to hear what the new project is. it will be nice to see more of you around here again, i learned so much from you over the years. europe is hot right now, look in that direction.
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Old 04-16-2014, 08:58 PM   #173
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Agreed. I'm not knocking you guys (in fact, I complimented) and I wished we had the same ability to piggy back on a brand name. Please see the original context. We were demonstrating one tool to benchmark performance.

As you and Sean said, all that matters at the end of the day is to make more money than you did before. But you still get a kick out of beating a competitor. This is one way to benchmark. And as an employee, I'm not privy to financials so I use it to benchmark my performance, as well as get insight on our competitors.

I'm not here to swing my dick around. I'm just an employee who wants to do his job better. I laid out my approach and how I interpret the data, hoping to learn from constructive feedback. If you like to discuss and share approaches so we may both learn, you and Kristin have my skype and email. I'm always open to new ideas and I'm always open to sharing what I learn with you.
I agree. Competition is the sole reason why the newer sites are getting better and better content.

When are we going to trade some sales?
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:56 PM   #174
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I agree. Competition is the sole reason why the newer sites are getting better and better content.

When are we going to trade some sales?
He must have missed your reply. You guys are awesome to trade sales with ;)

How are you doing?
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Old 04-19-2014, 03:01 PM   #175
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Adult is not on any decline last time I looked. Consolidation perhaps, but that is true for every industry cycle. Get over it or find your place in it.
Just curious. are you making as much money now as you were 10 years ago?
A little less, the same, or a little more?
Im not debating Im just curious
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:03 AM   #176
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Disagree.

The value of tube traffic has gone down. My partner Spike says tubes will be like tgp is now in a year or two and I have to agree. The writing is already on the wall if you have been following that xbiz thread etc.

Nothing we ever did or currently do on tubes was ever "at your expense" in any way whatsoever. You were and are free to reap the rewards or suffer the indignities any way you see fit. We have every right to compete in the reality of the market as do you. By the logic of what you are implying, if we load more clips than you do then you are actually getting traffic at OUR expense.

Adult is not on any decline last time I looked. Consolidation perhaps, but that is true for every industry cycle. Get over it or find your place in it.
What xbiz thread? what is the general jist?

If i was to guess it would be a model that encourages more sharing of profits with content owners. Can you tell me the top 3 posters in thread and then i can make an educated guess as to if it is worth any merit?
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:08 AM   #177
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I agree 100%. As the saying goes we could get the band back together pretty quickly. That said there's no point in doing something half assed. If you start a paysite from scratch you start it and you fuckin kill it. Just like JT did. He had the money went balls to the wall and smashed it. That's the way to do it. To do it that way you need to really throw down the money at the beginning and get everything in place properly. It wouldn't be cheap. It wouldn't even be guaranteed. It would be a big ass job. If I were to make that type of investment, both financially and physically, I'd want it to be something else. I couldn't go through the start up phase of a paysite company again. It's a bitch. For that level of investment I'd rather try my hand at mainstream and fail horribly but have something to say I did in mainstream.


Another thing I'm not interested in is running a company from the get go and being responsible for all the paperwork, the legal, the accounting, basically the core infrastructure. Not many people realize just how much paperwork we had at Twistys. I think it was an entire truckload just of 2257 papers. Absolute insanity.

To get back into adult I have to find something fun. Everything above is not fun.


I think the best way to put is probably the way my wife has described the idea of having another child. She'd love to snap her fingers and have a 7 year old but doesn't have the energy or desire to go through pregnancy and baby phase again.

You get to a certain age or certain point in life where the pregnancy and baby phase is something you've gladly done and enjoyed but have no desire to do it again. That's how I feel.
Thanks for the recognition Shap
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:14 AM   #178
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Just curious. are you making as much money now as you were 10 years ago?
A little less, the same, or a little more?
Im not debating Im just curious
We are making more; however, that has a lot to do with us going on our own, getting past big expensive legal battles like Acacia and CE, and focusing on core competencies

I don't see some sort of invisible ceiling to our growth. We are doing well now because we are more focused on our brand than ever. We are seeing growth even in DVD, which is astonishing even to us at this point in the progression of things.
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:45 AM   #179
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Send me an email Shap. Would love to hear your thoughts on building something around adult social media. It's very current in mainstream and could be the future of porn. I have a good base of followers on social media (7 million people) and could be interested in stepping into a JV around the idea. [email protected]
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Old 04-29-2014, 05:18 AM   #180
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I've started replying to a lot of the emails. If you haven't heard back from me be patient you will
When Shap, wheeeeeeennnn???
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:51 PM   #181
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When can someone expect a reply?

Curious minds are asking.
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Old 05-26-2014, 02:35 PM   #182
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When Shap, wheeeeeeennnn???
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Old 06-01-2014, 12:57 PM   #183
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Still working thru replies. As soon as I made this post things got really busy for me
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Old 11-25-2016, 07:52 AM   #184
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OP, if you're that good why do you need anyone to partner with?
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:00 PM   #185
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Bump for business
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:41 AM   #186
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Shap was good back in the day. He's been "thinking" about getting back in the game for over three years. He's broke or a loser.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:51 AM   #187
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Shap was good back in the day. He's been "thinking" about getting back in the game for over three years. He's broke or a loser.
Lol coming from you that's gold
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:52 AM   #188
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When I made this post I found a company that I tried to acquire. I worked for over two months on the deal only to have it fall apart at the very end. Very frustrating. When the deal fell apart I lost interest and moved on.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:47 AM   #189
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Lol coming from you that's gold
You obviously want or need a job. So go out and start one. Don't wait for someone to partner up with because that's not going to happen.

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When I made this post I found a company that I tried to acquire. I worked for over two months on the deal only to have it fall apart at the very end. Very frustrating. When the deal fell apart I lost interest and moved on.
And you still haven't found anyone or started something on your own already.

If healthy, wanted and needed to work I would find something in days.
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:04 AM   #190
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You obviously want or need a job. So go out and start one. Don't wait for someone to partner up with because that's not going to happen.

And you still haven't found anyone or started something on your own already.

If healthy, wanted and needed to work I would find something in days.
I'll be honest I'm picky and particular. Part of the challenge is I think very differently about products and business than most. The people that need my help the most usually think the most differently. The guys crushing it all have the same mindset.
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:57 AM   #191
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I'll be honest I'm picky and particular. Part of the challenge is I think very differently about products and business than most. The people that need my help the most usually think the most differently. The guys crushing it all have the same mindset.
Have you tried with McDonalds ?
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:06 AM   #192
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I'll be honest I'm picky and particular. Part of the challenge is I think very differently about products and business than most. The people that need my help the most usually think the most differently. The guys crushing it all have the same mindset.
Shap - that is unbelievably arrogant.

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Old 07-17-2017, 05:09 AM   #193
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Shap - that is unbelievably arrogant.

I forget what GFY is like and my asshole grumpy side comes out.
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:33 AM   #194
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I forget what GFY is like and my asshole grumpy side comes out.
please................
you don't know what an asshole grumpy side is.
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:41 AM   #195
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The massive amount of replies shows how miserable the real industry state is.
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:48 AM   #196
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The massive amount of replies shows how miserable the real industry state is.
heh?
the only people who are miserable are the people who imagine this is an "industry"
its not. Its a place to open a store front. If you choose to make and sell potholders, don't expect to be as successful as the local McDonalds.
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:55 AM   #197
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heh?
the only people who are miserable are the people who imagine this is an "industry"
its not. Its a place to open a store front. If you choose to make and sell potholders, don't expect to be as successful as the local McDonalds.
Wot? Don't understand what you are trying to succumb.
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:00 AM   #198
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Wot? Don't understand what you are trying to succumb.
that there has always been a failing bottom in adult. This thread proves nothing about the state of the industry
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:06 AM   #199
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that there has always been a failing bottom in adult. This thread proves nothing about the state of the industry
Well, I believe many, including myself, would be happy to sell something to a successful man.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:18 AM   #200
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I'll be honest I'm picky and particular. Part of the challenge is I think very differently about products and business than most. The people that need my help the most usually think the most differently. The guys crushing it all have the same mindset.
Doesn't stop you from starting a business yourself, if you can't find someone to get with. Over 3 years is a long time to be looking.
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