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Old 03-27-2014, 05:13 PM   #101
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100 Steps !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am creepingg on u Shappppppppppp
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:18 PM   #102
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I emailed, so only fair to bump as well for more ideas/possible opportunities for you
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:34 PM   #103
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Hi Shap,

I emailed. I was the guy who thought there was a *huge* market for steering people in the right direction of billing.

And it is a *huge* market.
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:36 AM   #104
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I will send you email later today.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:01 AM   #105
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:00 AM   #106
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i hear twistys need some help
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:19 AM   #107
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:35 AM   #108
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i hear twistys need some help
You should apply, you know Twistys better than most people
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:15 AM   #109
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i hear twistys need some help
This is the best one!
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:22 AM   #110
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I'd say Playboy would greatly benefit from having you on board!
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:48 AM   #111
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I'd say Playboy would greatly benefit from having you on board!
That kind of does have a ring to it.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:05 AM   #112
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I'd say Playboy would greatly benefit from having you on board!
Shap is kinda like the new Hugh Hefner anyway, isn't he? I've never met him in person but this is how I picture him, and always with a bathrobe on and a pipe. Even when he plays tennis.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:06 AM   #113
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This is the best one!
Looks like Femjoy/Joymii could use Shap's help. Paysite model is dead, I like Shap but dead is dead, best that can be done is squeezing whatever can be squeezed out of the dying beast.



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Old 03-28-2014, 10:32 AM   #114
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I'd say Playboy would greatly benefit from having you on board!
Manwin/Mindgeek runs all of that right?
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:36 AM   #115
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Looks like Femjoy/Joymii could use Shap's help. Paysite model is dead, I like Shap but dead is dead, best that can be done is squeezing whatever can be squeezed out of the dying beast.



Amazing to hear this from you unless I miss something but I agree with you.

That said it would make a great challenge for Shap.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:45 AM   #116
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Amazing to hear this from you unless I miss something but I agree with you.

That said it would make a great challenge for Shap.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:24 AM   #117
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Paysite model is dead
Is this official? There is no general consensus yet
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:07 PM   #118
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From my perspective, I think it will be fascinating to watch you build something from scratch or build an existing property even bigger then it is already, especially knowing that most of your previous success was built on many years of "old school" techniques.

I enjoy reading your "New Year" threads and especially like that you make yourself available here. Best of luck in whatever comes your way!
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:40 PM   #119
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Ok, just for the sake of discussion, say a company of our size, with the brand loyalty we possess, the sales channels we are in on and offline, the acumen we have developed from years of experience, and the resources we sit on in terms of content, personnel, etc., our longevity, mainstream press accolades, etc., stepped up here, would that be worth consideration?

I get the feeling that you would be way more interested in something that harnesses mutually compatible skills and resources, not just shelling out to make someone else a ton of cash while you assume a ton of risk.

I come from the standpoint where parties that are equal and self sufficient form much better relationships than deals where one side assumes all the work or pays all the burdens unequally.

Thoughts?

Just for the record, I am not fishing for a deal, but I am always open to discussion so use this post as a vehicle to provide more feedback and insight into what you are looking for.

You missed your calling .politician or lawyer bro
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:57 AM   #120
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You missed your calling .politician or lawyer bro
Ya, I was ineligible for either. They said I wasn't Tall-tale enough.
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:58 AM   #121
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Looks like Femjoy/Joymii could use Shap's help. Paysite model is dead, I like Shap but dead is dead, best that can be done is squeezing whatever can be squeezed out of the dying beast.



I have suggested this to Shap, and it's definitely a good idea Mutt.
To be fair, this is the alexa for twistys:



and our main competitor met-art:



If you know how to use and interpret google trends (and adwords), you will get a much more accurate representation of QUALITY traffic. Here's joymii stacked against our competitors:



and Femjoy vs Met-art



Please consider my impact on Joymii.com:



Think about it like this: I was a noob who worked for Shap for just 1 year, going from programming at sextube, to product management at a completely different niche and environment. Imagine how much of an impact his more experienced employees such as mpahlca or ramster, can have on a program - whether it be a paysite, cam, dating, or mainstream. It makes the decision for Mindgeek to let Ramster go, even more bizarre.

Twistys was a talent factory. The paysite model isn't dead, but too many paysites lack mature management which Twistys had.

Even out of the game for a couple of years, imagine the impact the former LEADER of Twistys can have on a program.

If he wanted to, Sean could probably partner with mpahlca at ZeroTolerance and make it into a brazzers-killer in the niche.

I would shit in my pants if Shap decided to be a partner at one of our competitors.
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Old 03-29-2014, 03:35 PM   #122
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If he wanted to, Sean could probably partner with mpahlca at ZeroTolerance and make it into a brazzers-killer in the niche.

I would shit in my pants if Shap decided to be a partner at one of our competitors.
You guys give Shap way too much credit. Everbody knows it was Shaps wifey that was the brains behind that operation
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Old 03-29-2014, 03:49 PM   #123
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Think about it like this: I was a noob who worked for Shap for just 1 year, going from programming at sextube, to product management at a completely different niche and environment. Imagine how much of an impact his more experienced employees such as mpahlca or ramster, can have on a program - whether it be a paysite, cam, dating, or mainstream. It makes the decision for Mindgeek to let Ramster go, even more bizarre.
So True!
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Old 03-29-2014, 04:38 PM   #124
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Manwin/Mindgeek runs all of that right?
That's my understanding, they've switched the hugely popular Cyber Club into a far more cost-efficient operation known as Playboy Plus, which is unfortunately nowhere near as popular with Playboy fans (that's from reading the fan comments). To be fair Playboy Plus has improved a lot since it first appeared, but it is lacking something, it's hard to say what, maybe it's become too predictable.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:28 AM   #125
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femjoy


This is the alexa for twistys:


and met-art:


The paysite model isn't dead.
Paysite not dead (yet) but is that the future? Traffic is not same as sales, but there is some relationship. All those graphs (including keyword search) dive down with no any sign of trend change. So you can easily forecast what in 5-10 years from now, and end to zero on long term.

Comparatively, look at cams, for ex.,

Chaturbate:


Bongacams:


Myfreecams (really going down a little lately, but very little):


Just for completeness, can anyone provide top dating sites traffic and keywords graphs? How is dating going really?
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:10 AM   #126
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You guys give Shap way too much credit. Everbody knows it was Shaps wifey that was the brains behind that operation
Agreed and do you think Michael would ever want to even hear from me again much less work together? PFFFT
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:41 AM   #127
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Ey Shap, email send from 1726media( @ ) gmail (com) sorry for my english. I really want to check and give me a repply to organice the idea in general. we are located in Colombia and just dont forget this.

EVERYBODY LOVE THE COLOMBIAN PRODUCTS.
Good energy. Cristian Cipriani
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:22 AM   #128
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I would shit in my pants...
Why Wait? Its extremely enjoyable

Back to reality though, serious suggestion based on the 'Shark Tank' comments...

Set up a forum - Shap and a couple of other investors can see ALL the posts...

Individual posters / pitchers can only see replies to there own threads... That way it gives those interested in pitching a proposal a decent amount of security, to feel free to post links, stats and details, that are necessary for their pitch, but not for 'public' knowledge...

Then, announce the winner and run with it

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Old 03-31-2014, 05:48 AM   #129
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Why Wait? Its extremely enjoyable

Back to reality though, serious suggestion based on the 'Shark Tank' comments...

Set up a forum - Shap and a couple of other investors can see ALL the posts...

Individual posters / pitchers can only see replies to there own threads... That way it gives those interested in pitching a proposal a decent amount of security, to feel free to post links, stats and details, that are necessary for their pitch, but not for 'public' knowledge...

Then, announce the winner and run with it

You know that's a great idea. Not only that but starting up ways for people not only to invest but to provide feedback and simply help out. Not a bad idea.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:05 AM   #130
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You know that's a great idea. Not only that but starting up ways for people not only to invest but to provide feedback and simply help out. Not a bad idea.
Cool... I's [email protected] or some other silly address for the pooment...
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:16 AM   #131
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:02 AM   #132
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I've started replying to a lot of the emails. If you haven't heard back from me be patient you will
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:29 PM   #133
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I have to disagree that the paysite model is dead and that it's a downward trend.

People are searching for "nubilefilms.com" and nubile films" more then "nubilefilms" as one word. There is quite a difference in the graphs.



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Old 04-14-2014, 01:35 PM   #134
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Paysite model isn't dead, it has declined. But with everything, when you are good at what you do, its more than possible to create a new large brand. Especially a company that has already established themselves and have a ton of profit from their existing networks to play with, among other things such as a large member email database, large active memberbase to promote to, existing traffic networks, and well.. a business model that already works etc.. which joymii and nubilefilms already had with femjoy and nubiles

I think when people say its dead, people just mean it has declined because obviously its not dead.

The decline has made it so you can't reach the same heights, that is all.

And to say it hasn't declined is just flat out wrong. or a lie to not scare off potential affiliates ;)
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:20 PM   #135
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I have to disagree that the paysite model is dead and that it's a downward trend.

People are searching for "nubilefilms.com" and nubile films" more then "nubilefilms" as one word. There is quite a difference in the graphs.
Kristin and Pseudonymous are both correct. A new, good product, will rise quickly, but we all eventually plateau or fall. Twistys has. Femjoy has. Joymii has. Nubiles has done a great job recently, scoring great models like Belle Knox.

Kristin, I used the ".com" graph as an example for others who are interested in measuring direct-traffic and SEO performance, and how they can compare themselves against their peers.

I commend you guys on doing a fantastic job with branding and search for "nubile films" is indeed increasing in popularity. But the google trends are skewed as Pseudonymous pointed out, by the original "nubiles.net" and the increased video offerings. In other words, when users are searching for "nubile films", this includes the group looking for films from nubiles.net and not just nubilefilms.com. It also includes pirate and "free" searches, so I tend not to rely on it.

If you trend "joymii videos" and "nubile videos", you kill us for the same reason.

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Old 04-14-2014, 03:47 PM   #136
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Not sure why graphs of google trends are even brought up, about the only thing i would use that for is to gauge the level of interest on google for say, a model.

people google the models they find more than the site names. nevermind that, nubile/s is moreso a word than a brand.

use alexa, while it can be cheated, 99.9 percent dont cheat it and it shows a pretty accurate estimation of sites with over 10k of traffic daily. and if you dont trust the estimation of traffic which you can get from the reach percentage, there are no denying it's accuracy when it comes to the trend of going up or down



thats a more accurate view of traffic trends over the past 6 months.

sadly my account seems to only track the past 6 months for whatever reason, support tells me it can go back further, im contacting them now. if anybody knows why this is, let me know.

here is nubilefilms, but also take into account nubilefilms is newer



and an overlapped comparison




im going to look into going back a little more.

sorry for letting it continue to go off topic Shap, not many threads in here have any business talk ;)
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:54 PM   #137
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i hear twistys need some help
Could probably buy it back for pennies on the dollar from the new owners at Mind-Numbn. They obviously don't have a clue what they are doing or what to do with it.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:30 PM   #138
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Not sure why graphs of google trends are even brought up, about the only thing i would use that for is to gauge the level of interest on google for say, a model.

sorry for letting it continue to go off topic Shap, not many threads in here have any business talk ;)
Agreed. I wished there was more business talk here too.

Alexa sample data is not accurate but does provide an over-view of trends. It takes into account ALL traffic, including garbage paid traffic.

If you know what you are benchmarking on google trends, you can get a pretty good estimate of "quality" traffic such as type-ins, directs, and customers willing to pay.

Let's say I know my competitor converts the same as I do. Since we are in the same niche, our traffic patterns will be similar for type-ins. I benchmark joymii.com against their URL. Knowing the exact amount of direct traffic I get, I can estimate how much direct traffic they get, and therefore roughly their sales amount, even their possible member count.

A paysite can have a really low Alexa, but high google trend since the data is normalized.

Let's say I was your competitor. One day I looked up autumnriley.com on alexa. I see nothing. But when I look it up on google trend, I see a huge spike upwards. That means you are getting a huge increase in direct and SE traffic - the good kind of traffic. I would then try to analyze other data such as SERPs, and WayBackMachine saves - anything to see what you have done to get that huge uptick and how I can get the same thing
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:53 PM   #139
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Agreed. I wished there was more business talk here too.

Alexa sample data is not accurate but does provide an over-view of trends. It takes into account ALL traffic, including garbage paid traffic.

If you know what you are benchmarking on google trends, you can get a pretty good estimate of "quality" traffic such as type-ins, directs, and customers willing to pay.

Let's say I know my competitor converts the same as I do. Since we are in the same niche, our traffic patterns will be similar for type-ins. I benchmark joymii.com against their URL. Knowing the exact amount of direct traffic I get, I can estimate how much direct traffic they get, and therefore roughly their sales amount, even their possible member count.

A paysite can have a really low Alexa, but high google trend since the data is normalized.

Let's say I was your competitor. One day I looked up autumnriley.com on alexa. I see nothing. But when I look it up on google trend, I see a huge spike upwards. That means you are getting a huge increase in direct and SE traffic - the good kind of traffic. I would then try to analyze other data such as SERPs, and WayBackMachine saves - anything to see what you have done to get that huge uptick and how I can get the same thing
But there is alot of search terms to get to your sites via google, not just one .. and you better hope that one search term isnt' used by people searching anything else up. And do you know your competitors top search terms? (or that weeks top search terms) You would need to know things like that too

I guess you are right about it taking into account garbage paid traffic but unless you are just spending a fortune nonstop for a long period, it hardly skews these trends and stats. sure it will show a spike and then that spike will go down, but like i said, when you go at the historical data, gives you a good estimation of what they usually sit at and what direction they are heading in. if you want to get more specific into the week, i think that is pointless other than if you want to see how popular an update or something was from them. then that would be similar to what i was saying about searching up popularity of a model (something more specific)

Its a shame we couldn't test our theories with a site by guessing the memberbase because i dont trust a single person to tell me the correct number so.. ;)

But I am much more confident in my ability to do so with alexa traffic stats and discounting any large spikes that could be caused by end of a promotion, etc

And using solo sites as an example is poor because alexa does not track stats of sites with that traffic level, which i stated in my first post.

Are you sure youre using reach percentage and not traffic rank stats, maybe thats why you feel its more accurate ;) Given you looked up autumn and you felt it was more accurate, i feel like you didn't use reach percentage, since there is no available data

If you are more confident in your ability with that method, by all means. But im not sure how well tested that is, i personally have ran 500+ tgps, combine for over a million a day in traffic. Checking alexa on them was all i did considering alot of tgps back in the day, you had to had over a certain rank, etc in order to trade.

Alexa was accurate on estimating all my sites to within 5k of traffic, and thats big. But thats because they were anywhere between 20k-100k day in traffic. With something bigger, it would be closer to 10-20 percent maybe but again, thats very accurate. From my experience, traffic = sales, most things in this industry convert pretty closely as the paysite business model is very very similar, even from niche to niche.

But i guess you are only thinking google traffic because i assume think thats the best way to determine their memberbase (which i dont agree with but yeah) then that just brings me back to my first paragraph again
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:21 PM   #140
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Those google search numbers are so small, you can really estimate a memberbase better than i can with traffic levels? Im actually interested in how you get to the number. Would love to see your formula if you dont mind

I find knowing a site has 100,000 a day in traffic gives me more of an idea than google trends with their search term numbers, plus knowing the average conversion rate for such a site.

Hope you dont think im completely shutting down your method, im just basically explaining how it doesn't make sense to me ;)

Either way, our methods did show the same trend with the two sites and thats typically why im looking, i want to know if theyre headed up or down
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:22 PM   #141
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I don't have a idea or anything(yet, but did want to hey Shap, good to see you around, I just got back into somethings myself

maybe we can talk oneday soon.
Good luck with all and everything!
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:47 PM   #142
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:11 PM   #143
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But I am much more confident in my ability to do so with alexa traffic stats and discounting any large spikes that could be caused by end of a promotion, etc

And using solo sites as an example is poor because alexa does not track stats of sites with that traffic level, which i stated in my first post.
I would love to hear your method too. I don't discount it. I believe we are working similarly, with different criterias and tools.

I'm using your site in context, but not literally. Smaller sample = harder to determine

Contact me anytime michael [at] femjoy.com and leave your skype. Let's talk and I can explain my methods.

The gist is, at high traffic levels, a google trend chart maps actual traffic (such as what you see in analytics) more accurately than alexa or compete. You are not benchmarking broad search terms in google trends, but urls and how typical users behave.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:53 PM   #144
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There is no such thing as a cap on a solo girl site. There is only limitations that you would put on yourself. Congrats for 5k per site... better then the norm

Oops... i posted this in the wrong thread....

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Old 04-14-2014, 11:10 PM   #145
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There is no such thing as a cap on a solo girl site. There is only limitations that you would put on yourself. Congrats for 5k per site... better then the norm

Oops... i posted this in the wrong thread....
Since you didn't move it to the correct thread:

Theres a reason people launch new brands/sites, theres more money to be made in more sites than there is in putting in all your effort and time into one site, so even if you dont believe there is a cap on the one site (which there is), launching more sites is always the better option once theyre at the level as most other successful ones.

While I like the positivity, your message implies that people should stick with trying to make their one site/product as big as they possibly can instead of expanding the network
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:19 PM   #146
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Since you didn't move it to the correct thread:

Theres a reason people launch new brands/sites, theres more money to be made in more sites than there is in putting in all your effort and time into one site, so even if you dont believe there is a cap on the one site (which there is), launching more sites is always the better option once theyre at the level as most other successful ones.

While I like the positivity, your message implies that people should stick with trying to make their one site/product as big as they possibly can instead of expanding the network
I am glad you posted... because I can't keep track of a god damn thing!

One thing jumped out at me in your OP... "No third party billers"... so I naturally assumed you figured it out.

Checked your sites... 3rd party billing...

So your stats are flawed because you don't know what billing yourself could do for all of those solo sites and your biz in general.

I can't jam it down anyone's throats... but the money is in the merchant account. And hidden behind that is the trial join.... and hidden behind that is the money in recurring.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:28 PM   #147
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When i say hidden... hidden to you... the sub merchant. You have no idea how to bill because you let ccbill do it for you
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:55 AM   #148
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So many theories
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:36 PM   #149
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There are graphs, stats, charts to make you feel better about yourself but the most important thing is sales and $$$.

I always loved looking at the different trends and charts but they don't always= $$$. From my memory they don't predict future success but they definitely can be a heads up that you are about to drop. If your traffic or trends or searches start declining your sales may remain steady for a while but they'll drop and maybe even plummet if you don't take action
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:46 PM   #150
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I dont think anyone was looking at them to predict their own, i think people use them to predict the trends of competitors in order to reaffirm what you may already know works or does not work.

Its a tool thats available , why not use it.

And yes you are right, a decline in traffic, the sales will eventually follow.
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