Nathan

MaDalton, could be. Maybe it was explained like this to me to keep me out, who knows. I expected DTI simply produces outside of Japan for at least parts of the content.

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Jel

rogue designer

Carry on.

Captain Kawaii

let Fabian roll. He knows the deal. - He is FABIAN, dammit!

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

So you basically don't really know/understand Japanese law, and you're plunging Manwin full-speed ahead with designers that don't understand that they should not use copyrighted content that they have no rights to, etc.

Sounds about par for the course with Fabian Thylmann - this reminds me about when he tried to suggest that lawyers told him what he was doing was not evading taxes...and look where that got him...JAIL!



Nathan/Fabian, a free word of advice, if you don't like the jails in Belgium and Germany, you are probably going to really dislike jail in Japan.



ADG

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Captain Kawaii

Imagine doing time in a jail with other gaijin...Taiwanese, Koreans, Chinese. People he's been ripping off for the last decade. Sushi tonight boys, German style.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Like Otaku and you, I have spent quite a bit of time in Japan (in my case 5+ years), speak a little of the language, and know the country and the culture reasonably well (as much as a Gaijin can, and in our case, we have inside views as well through our native Japanese GFs/spouses), so of course you are aware that there is a huge underground for uncensored porn in Japan.

For those that are unaware, Japan has a thriving brothel industry, and live sex theaters are located in many large Japanese cities (they have been operating in the open for decades). Some performers give condoms to audience members and then give them a blow job for free to entertain the rest of the audience, plus you can purchase polaroid nude shots of most girls to take home for about $5 a snap.



Sex and underground porn are huge industries in Japan. Porn is expensive to start with in Japan, and underground porn is even more expensive, but Japanese men spend a fortune on sex and porn, so it is quite lucrative for the people running those operations, however it is fairly well know that these industries are largely controlled by Yakuza (the Japanese mafia), people that most Gaijin know better than to mess with.

That's the primary reason why I don't even bother to shoot when I go to Japan. Well, that and Japanese porn performers get paid 10x what American porn stars do (plus I like being able to keep going back to visit Japan, lol).

Be interesting to see who Fabian is getting into bed with this time.





ADG

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Captain Kawaii

Good post, ADG. Well said.

Robbie

Well, if Fabian has his way...that will soon be over with and porn in Japan will be devalued and worthless like it is in the U.S. and Europe.

Maybe the Japanese mafia will make an example out of him. Or maybe they will just take his money and let him do as he pleases and destroy that market too.

Either way...people are actually spending a lot of money buying porn in Japan. You know that Manwin can't let that happen. They MUST give it all away for free and sell the useless traffic (it will become useless after the porn is FREE) for ad spots.

I think Fabian might actually work for the U.S. govt. and is on a mission to do what they could not do in court: Destroy the porn industry.

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otaku

Japanese are already wary of foreigners as it is, and it takes a lot of effort to gain their trust. Please do not do anything to confirm their negative stereotypes of foreigners. It will just make it harder for the rest of us who are doing business in Japan. It's because of those bad apple gaijins that there are "no gaijins allowed" policies with many landlords as well as fuzoku establishments.

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Nathan

otaku, our goal after we do a deal with the biggest adult entertainment company in japan is hardly to piss them off.

I understand that this is always the first thought on a couple of people's minds here, but it is clearly not our goal. We are here to make money and we will. All the claims written here are stupid and simply done by people that dislike what I or Manwin do.

If this kind of stuff happens with another company, nobody gives a shit. If it is us, I can come here and apologize multiple times, explain openly, voice concerns, start discussing with people, but all that happens is I get shit on. Fine, have it your way... But honestly, it helps nobody in the end the way many here act, but those people will never learn and understand this anyway...

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otaku

That's true, DMM cannot distribute uncensored porn even overseas because as a Japanese company they have to obey Japanese law. DTI can buy content shot in Japan and distribute it uncensored because they are a California-based American company subject to US law. DTI's sites are not blocked in Japan, and the majority of their customers are Japanese, but DTI is not based in Japan. Japanese producers can sell raw footage to overseas content purchasers as the producers are not distributing it, and it is up to the content purchaser to decide how to process the content before distributing it.

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Captain Kawaii

The problem Fabian, is you are not getting the full story here. Your bumbling around Tokyo trying to make a deal is a monumental task and doomed to fail simply because you are being ill-advised and you do not understand the process there.

Otaku is right in asking that you please do not muck things up. What he is not telling you is that much of the content is prepared by partnerships. Collaborative efforts. He is also not telling you that fuzoku or mizu shobai is a vertical business model.

I read the Japanese webmaster boards and there is not a lot of love for your tubes or your business there. Your sites along with all the other illegal tubes have crushed the JAV business for many. I am baffled by Momo T.'s willingness to deal with you, if indeed they are.

My guess is you are still trying vis a vis your friend Aubrey.

acrylix

Not sure if this applies across the board, but a friend of mine who owns a small chain of adult DVD shops in Tokyo and Saitama has been complaining for years about declining DVD sales...which he attributes mainly to online piracy. Last year, he started closing some shops, and began phasing out into other business ventures.

Around 2009, I remember being a little surprised when some Japanese friends who speak next to no English recommended RedTube to me. None of these guys buy porn anymore. All of my Japanese friends (20-40 yrs old range) are on the tubes now. You don't need to be a native English speaker to type in a tube URL and watch months' worth of Japanese porn for free. The tubes even make it easy for them. Visit xhamster with a Japanese IP address and you will see the Japanese category up top with a nice little Japanese flag to grab their attention.

One thing they have going for them is a huge aging population who aren't internet savvy, and are probably helping keep the DVD market somewhat afloat for now. But that can't go on forever.

Captain Kawaii

acrylix,
Sad truth you speak. I speak to your friend often. Good guy.

TV viewing is way down in Japan. many are protesting the practices of NHK and there is a lot of boring tv going on. A brother and sister got popped recently for selling burns of uncensored. Family biz.

DVD sales for us have been growing even though in a roller coaster fashion. Japanese are great customers if you are good to them.

I know Japanese affiliates are really bummed since the tubes, like redtube and others started pumping japanese content. Still, the best deal is the dvd or the blu-ray for me or hd sites like gravure.com or the tsunami sites. Top shelf.

shunga

You don't hire a designer, give him no content, then put the design up. There are only two reasons for that to happen, and neither of them are good.

Otaku's content is very high quality. I feared someone would end up doing this, but I thought the Russians would have stolen it first. Sad times for the business.

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Nathan

Ahh, see... thats what I meant! So I was right after all, or at least partly Thx for clearing it up Otaku.

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Nathan

Like everyone that is not blinded by hate of how the industry evolved, they see that we are not only very good at tubes, but we are also very good at premium content. And this is what they are banking on. We did it very successfully with Wicked and I am quite sure we will do it very successfully with them.

Please do not underestimate my understanding of the difficulties with dealing with Japan. I do not speak Japanese myself, but have a lot of Japanese friends and business associates in many verticals. I understand that it is a very delicate culture to deal with and I have made this very clear to my management too. I hope they understand and accept this difficulty, but I can not do more than tell them.

What happened here with erito.com is completely inexcusable and should have never happened, but as I said before and as I will say time and time again, in a big company, shit happens and we have to mitigate against it as much as we can, but with so many people working for Manwin human error happens and can not be 100% avoided (although I also do not use this as an excuse, as I said it is inexcusable to me!)

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Captain Kawaii

The truth is, you have next to zero, if not zero understanding of what you are doing or have been doing with regard to Japanese content and your tubes. Have one of your dear friends post here in Nihongo and lets discuss in nihongo.

You've already burned your bridges to real relationships in Japan by allowing their content to be pirated on all of your tubes for so many years.

If you cannot be without error you cannot function in Japan. Your errors are costly and inexcusable to Japanese studios.

1. erito? gibberish.
2. verticals? - you have no idea of the concept in Japan and how it applies to this business.

You are out of your depth. I am out.

Adam_M

Very nice looking sites, signing up!

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Nathan

Well this should be awesome for you then! We will fail and you will laugh.. good for you, bad for us.. you should be happy and not all upset at me ;)

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notjoe

According to AdultKing, Tube sites do not pirate content. They own licenses for everything they have. Maybe you were on a 3 day binge and gave away rights?

AdultKing

I have never said such a thing.

Carry on.

johnnyloadproductions

I liked watching the little cat fights between you two about 6 months ago.
Keeps the thread bumped.

Yes, most content on tubes is licensed. You can get 10's of GB of non-exclusive content for even under 100 dollars.

signupdamnit

In the beginning hardly any of it was licensed. It was almost all stolen from other studios. A lot of that content is still up to this day. For a while Mansef/Manwin did not have a legit 3 strikes policy (maybe they still don't? Fabian used to talk as if he thought that were illegal despite youtube doing it) where content gets deleted so an uploader could upload 2,000 full scenes get 5 DMCA's and still have 1995 other full scenes up. They also used to do some bullshit with "anonymous" uploaders. It's all in the archives here.

It's better than what it used to be though. Now when you upload most tubes try to make it clear that they do not want copyrighted content. Sometimes it even seems like more than a "wink, wink" type thing. Desperate sponsors are voluntarily uploading in the content partnership programs instead. And in great part due to the tubes content is now dirt cheap so it's pretty easy to buy.

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adultmobile

To sell cams to Japanese it is a science on its own. Most will simply ask the girl to sniff own panties and describe how they smell. Girls may have no idea how to describe the smell of own panties for as long as 10 minutes, the smost skilled can find something to say for 30 seconds on that subject, at best. Also some japanese customers I have, made dozen different accounts to stalk the same girl who no more accepted private from previous nicks, they want to enter in the girl life somewhat, see them while peeing and know all their secrets, which is too much voyeur for a western cam girl.

I tried by translate a cam site in japanese (native, by hand) and adding traltime chat translation to/from japanese, but I failed because you need japanese girls, and these was not easy to hire or manage. Also japanese are very afraid to be caught watching porn, to breach any law (uncensored is illegal there), are privacy paranoids as if ever anyone knew they accessed porn (esp. illegal one) they would have to commit suicide for loss of honor (ok here I am joking).

Popular japanese cam sites except the obvious DTI (http://en.dxlive.com/home , http://www.sakuralive.com/japanese-webcam-girls.shtml ) and DMM "clothed only" ( http://www.dmm.co.jp/live/macha/ ) are:

http://www.angel-live.com/en/main.php
http://www.j-live.tv/index.php

About talking: look at a jap-only tube (http://tokyo-porn-tube.com/ for uncensored, or http://www.tokyo-tube.com/ for mosaid) and compare clips with a western tube. Western tube vods start with sex, othwerwise users will skip to sex, no one wants to know who the girl is and her life story; instead in japan clips the long blah blah with there's interviews about the whole life of the girl, and only at that point, sex can be performed - they will not want sex with the unknown.

What a sex? Except who just want panties sniffing, the girl will scream like if she's a very young virgin raped, no matter she's old and experienced, it must be dramatic or it is not sex. Even western porn actresses, when hired in Japanese productions, have to learn how to look shy and scream like if raped - and to blah blah about their story for 15 minutes before of any sex.

But the most important issue it is: 95% of japanese will want true japanese girls, no any else; don't give them philipina because "asian", no! They want true japanese girls - to talk with in japanese, about how her panties smell exactly, or her cute life story. Providing a philipina, thai or other asian girl is same bad, as giving a russian blonde, and perhaps they prefer the russian blonde to the philipina or thai, but really they want a japanese girl.

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adultmobile

Continued for detailing: the japanese guy does a brain-washing of an (always) shy girl to convince her to have sex (would not want a girl to jump on a man on command, is too easy), never girls shoul agree immediately. And they talk a lot after sex too, like taking lessons: http://www.tokyo-tube.com/video/73/

Except the very japanese funny stuff: http://www.tokyo-tube.com/video/7339/
... the girl will alway cry in rape style (illegal in UK): http://www.tokyo-tube.com/video/10688/
Voyeur factor is also important, they often put fixed cam like a spy cam: http://www.tokyo-tube.com/video/23273/ , which is less entertaining for a western, than a cameraman following action or POV really.

This scene from "Lost in Translation" is both funny and true:

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Captain Kawaii

For once, and strictly for academic reasons, I'd like to see you try to do things the correct way, the clean way. Who knows, you might actually be good at it.

DukeSkywalker

/THREAD
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