Creationism vs Evolution Debate: Bill Nye the Science Guy vs Ken Ham, Creationist - GoFuckYourself.com

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 02-05-2014, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Is creation a viable model of origins in today's modern, scientific era? Leading creation apologist and bestselling Christian author Ken Ham is joined at the Creation Museum by Emmy Award-winning science educator and CEO of the Planetary Society Bill Nye.

This is a long one, but pretty interesting.

NOTE: The debate doesn't start until 14:48, with Ham going first at 17:10 (better to start there, thank me later).

Quote:

Bill Nye the Science Guy and Ken Ham the Genesis Guy fought over the use and the misuse of the word "science" on Tuesday, during a public face-off over evolution that had the air of a presidential debate.

The discussion here at the Creation Museum featured video clips and a breakneck series of slides, a formal back-and-forth schedule of speeches and rebuttals, CNN's Tom Foreman as moderator and a packed 900-seat auditorium.

The live streaming video on YouTube drew as many as 532,000 simultaneous viewers.

The focus of the debate wasn't an election, but a question about world views: Does creationism provide a viable model for origins in this modern scientific era?

Ham says yes. He's the founder of the museum as well as a Christian outreach organization called Answers in Genesis, which marshals evidence for the view that God created the universe just 6,000 years ago.

He led off Tuesday night's debate by making a distinction between two types of scientific inquiry. Ham said there was "observational science," which can be directly tested by experiment; and "historical science," which interprets the past based on existing evidence.

In Ham's view, the biblical account describing the creation of the universe in six days worked at least as well as scientific views that lay out processes taking millions or billions of years.

"I believe the word 'science' has been hijacked by secularists," he said.

Bill Nye ? the longtime host of "Bill Nye the Science Guy," a popular TV show about science for kids ? countered that natural laws hold just as true for the past as they do for the present. He joked that without that viewpoint, a crime-lab show like "CSI: Petersburg" would be impossible. Thus, he argued, there shouldn't be a sharp distinction between observational and historical science.

"These are constructs unique to Mr. Ham," Nye said.

Nye often leavened his remarks with off-the-cuff humor: When discussing how science reconstructs the past, he noted that everything we observe has happened in the past, due to the finite speed of light. "I'm delighted to see that the people in the back of the room are that much younger than the people in the front," Nye said as he held his fingers just a pinch apart.

Bible as science textbook?

Both debaters focused on whether the Bible was a reliable guide for science. "I'm only too willing to admit my historical science is based on the Bible," Ham said. Radioisotope dating tests may indicate that the world is far older than 6,000 years, but Ham said those tests all were fallible.

"I find there's only one infallible dating method," Ham said. "It's a witness who was there, who knows everything and told us, and that's from the word of God."

Nye replied that it wasn't viable to accept the view that a Genesis-style flood 4,400 years ago could explain all the geological and paleontological phenomena observed in the fossil record. "Mr. Ham and his followers have this remarkable view of a worldwide flood that somehow influenced everything we observe in nature ? a 500-foot wooden boat, eight zookeepers for 14,000 individual animals. Every land plant under water for a full year? Now I ask us all, is that really reasonable?"

He noted that Antarctic ice cores show seasonal cycles of high and low temperatures that appear to go back more than 680,000 years, and pointed to tree-ring records going back as far as 9,550 years. If the world were only 6,000 years old, that would imply there were thousands of significant seasonal swings in the course of a year. "Wouldn't somebody have noticed that?" Nye asked.

Nye said the view that the laws of nature didn't apply 4,400 years ago, or 6,000 years ago, were "extraordinary, and unsettling" ? and he maintained that the debate was central to America's future as a scientific leader.

"If we continue to eschew science ... we are not going to move forward," Nye said.

Ham, however, played video clips from several scientists ? including Ray Damadian, inventor of the MRI scanner ? who said they had no problem reconciling their word-for-word acceptance of Genesis with their scientific work.

Genesis at center stage

The world view based on a literal interpretation of Genesis was on full display at the 70,000-square-foot, $35 million Creation Museum. In the exhibit halls, animatronic dinosaurs live alongside humans, and the fossils date back no earlier than 2400 B.C., when the Great Flood occurred. Other displays explain why radioisotope dating can yield wrong age estimates, and how a belief in evolution can lead to social ills.

Such claims are what sparked the debate in the first place: In 2012, Nye recorded a widely distributed video clip that urged parents not to teach their kids creationism. Ham responded with his own video, defending what's known as young-Earth creationism. The back-and-forth that followed eventually led to an agreement to hold Tuesday's event.

Nye's speaking fee and expenses were covered by the museum, which sold out its 900-seat auditorium at a ticket price of $25 per seat. Although the fee wasn't disclosed, Nye's typical fee amounts to tens of thousands of dollars. "The ticket sales won't cover half the cost of this debate," Ham told NBC News before the event.

The museum hopes to recoup expenses by selling DVDs and downloads of the video, titled "Uncensored Science: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham."

Advocates on both sides of the debate said they enjoyed the spectacle. "It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity," said Samuel Schmidt, a pro-Nye guy from Taylor Mill, Ky., who wore a bow tie as a sign of solidarity with the Science Guy.

Sonja Smith, a Ham supporter from Loveland, Ohio, also came away satisfied. "It proved that people can come together and have a respectful conversation about something that people are very passionate about," she said.

ADG

John-ACWM · 02-05-2014, 01:45 AM

I'd watch it! Great banners presenting them!

Arnox · 02-05-2014, 01:47 AM

I still can't believe people feel the need to discuss this.

Ken Ham starts with the assumption that the Bible is true and tries to find evidence to support it.

Scientists start with ... no assumptions and try to find evidence to support what they observe.

I don't know why anyone would be confused about which is a more logical approach.

CyberHustler · 02-05-2014, 02:05 AM

The fuck yo? I got work to do, but now ima be stuck watchin this for a couple hours... thanks

NewNick · 02-05-2014, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnox

I still can't believe people feel the need to discuss this.

Ken Ham starts with the assumption that the Bible is true and tries to find evidence to support it.

Scientists start with ... no assumptions and try to find evidence to support what they observe.

I don't know why anyone would be confused about which is a more logical approach.

I have the same problem with this - what is there to debate about ?

I once started reading Dawkin's God Delusion, one chapter in I realised I did not need to waste my time listening to a non debate, or have my rational logical approach to life reinforced. It left me lost as to where the likes of Dawkins find the interest or energy for the debate. Why bother trying to discuss something when the opposing side have rational logic blocked out on pain on death and eternal damnation.

Science is a moving feast which changes upon learning from observation, Religion (s) are dogmatic sets of rules laid down in times when people did not know any better. Ok so the creation story worked well before we learned that the universe is billions of years old, and plants and animals have existed on earth for hundreds of millions of years. What is there to debate about ? I actually find it quite bizarre that US based Christians have decided to create a debate about this issue. Rather than let Genisis be understood as a parable they have to insist on a literal interpretation, which frankly turns them into goggle eyed loons.

What is there to debate about ?

JockoHomo · 02-05-2014, 03:52 AM

JockoHomo · 02-05-2014, 03:54 AM

seeandsee · 02-05-2014, 04:54 AM

i vote draw, because nobody cant be sure 100%

JockoHomo · 02-05-2014, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeandsee

i vote draw, because nobody cant be sure 100%

Well we can be 100% sure of one thing and that is that creationists are pathetic mentally challenged people with the cognitive abilities of retarded children.

Cherry7 · 02-05-2014, 04:59 AM

Kentucky sounds like a fun place......

NewNick · 02-05-2014, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeandsee

i vote draw, because nobody cant be sure 100%

I can be 100% absolutely sure than god did not create the world in 6 days about 6000 years ago.

Without any doubt whatsoever.

Not a shred of a hint of a whiff of doubt.

Piriod.

NEW XTC · 02-05-2014, 06:17 AM

Natural selection will soon make creationists extinct.

Nothing to see here.

NewNick · 02-05-2014, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEW XTC

Natural selection will soon make creationists extinct.

Nothing to see here.

And the cartoonists will rule the world !!!

Relentless · 02-05-2014, 06:26 AM

They paid bill nye to debate them because merely debating with them lends credibility to their otherwise absurd point of view.
The same way North Korea would gladly pay a fortune for any world leader to schedule an official visit to meet with them

Barry-xlovecam · 02-05-2014, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Genesis at center stage

The world view based on a literal interpretation of Genesis was on full display at the 70,000-square-foot, $35 million Creation Museum. In the exhibit halls, animatronic dinosaurs live alongside humans, and the fossils date back no earlier than 2400 B.C., when the Great Flood occurred. Other displays explain why radioisotope dating can yield wrong age estimates, and how a belief in evolution can lead to social ills.

Proof :

Millions of true believers cannot be wrong ...

arock10 · 02-05-2014, 06:43 AM

Man still wrote the bible. It's not like god just fedexed them a fully written copy. So man is fallible, man wrote the bible, therefore the bible is fallible

FriXion · 02-05-2014, 08:00 AM

Weird that this is a "debate" format, like there's two sides

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 02-05-2014, 10:13 AM

In case you didn't listen to or watch the entire 2 hours and 45 minutes, or want Cliffs Notes, the folks at Time have made things easier for you with this:

Quote:

What You Missed While Not Watching the Bill Nye and Ken Ham Creation Debate

Here it is. All 150 minutes of it.

-13 minutes. The online countdown clock races toward zero. Dramatic music with a heavy bass line begins to play. Hashtags sprout in Twitterspace: #HamOnNye. #CreationDebate. #NyevSham.

One could easily add, #OMGWeAreDebatingCreationIn2014. Fasten your seatbelts. It?s going to be a long 150-minute return of the culture wars, because creationist Ken Ham is about to debate Bill Nye the Science Guy.

-5 minutes. The epic Braveheart-Lord-of-the-Rings-style soundtrack intensifies. Only thing missing is a sweeping camera pan over the horizon as Frodo travels on toward Mount Doom.

Ham and his PR team are firing away tweet after tweet about the debate and its importance. Nye, meanwhile, has tweeted about it only once. Al Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, tweets for prayers that the debate will reveal God?s truth.

0 minutes. A cartoon camel, a T-Rex, and a flying monkey flash across the screen. It?s a surprise ad for the Creation Museum in Petersburg, KY, Ham?s (unaccredited) $27-million museum that is the site for the debate. Kids under 12 are free in 2014!

30 seconds. The feed takes us live inside the museum?s Legacy Hall, where a lucky 900 people managed to score tickets to the event before they sold out in two minutes. Some 750,000 other people are watching the debate online. At least according to Ham?s evangelistic organization, Answers in Genesis.

1 minute. CNN?s Tom Foreman appears out of the darkness. He?s moderator, and the guy who wrote Obama a letter every day for four years. This isn?t exactly the same as moderating a presidential debate, but tonight?s symposium gets at something far more important: the origin of life. Foreman introduces the topic at hand: ?Is creation a viable model of origins in today?s modern scientific era??

2 minutes. Nye, in his signature bowtie, and Ham, with his Aussie accent, hop on stage, shake hands, and ready themselves behind their respective Apple laptops (only Nye?s has stickers). Nye stands on the left. Ham is on the right. The cameras pan to an all-white audience.

4 minutes. Ham won the coin toss, so he?s up first with an opening statement: the word science has been hijacked, hijacked by secularists. America?s textbooks have been indoctrinated by Darwin, and we need to take back the terms. He starts listing scientists who believe biblical creationism, and he?s got a slide show to back it up. His voice races as he talks about Raymond Damadian, the inventor of the MRI machine, who is a biblical creationist. Nye just stares at him.

9 minutes. Ham gets in his first Bible references. They are, predictably, about Jesus, not the creation story.

10 minutes. Now it?s Nye?s turn. He launches into an unrelated and awkward story about how someone taught his father to tie a bow tie by making him lie down on a bed.

13 minutes. Moving right along, Nye drops the first references to fossils and the Grand Canyon. The world is not 6000 years old as Ham believes, Nye says. And if America doesn?t get its act together to listen to scientific evidence, it won?t stay ahead. America?s future depends on evolution.

15 minutes. Now Nye and Ham each get 30 minutes (!) to present their full arguments. Everyone who has ever worked in presidential politics is drooling over the generosity of those allocations.

16 minutes. Ham starts saying the words ?science? and ?observe? so many times I lose count. He is clicking through slide after slide of atheists who are great scientists and scientists who believe the earth is 6,000 years old. The MRI scanner guy story appears on a video again.

Then someone else says he and other scientists are afraid to speak out for creationism because they will face persecution. These are Ham?s freedom fighters. ?I encourage children to follow people like that and make them their heroes,? Ham announces.

21 minutes. Next point. There?s a difference between what you observe in science today and the making a conclusion about science of the past. Lots of slides of vaccines and smoke detectors and other important inventions. We can agree about technology that put the rover on Mars, Ham says, but we can disagree about the origins of Mars. ?We?ve only got the present,? he explains.

23 minutes. Cue graphic of Nye and Ham fighting in a tug of war over a globe of the earth with animals and skulls coming out of it. This image is supposed to represent the fact that both Ham and Nye have the same evidence. It instead looks like toddlers fighting over a balloon.

26 minutes. Ham gives a shout out to his museum?s display of Darwin?s finches. Finches come from a common finch, Ham argues, not another common animal. That?s why Noah only needed one species of dog on the ark. ?Dogs will always be dogs, finches will always be finches,? he says. Cuz the Bible. And a recent University of California study. Lots of furrowed brows in the crowd.

30 minutes. Apple is still getting great product placement out of this debate.

34 minutes. Darwin taught that there were higher and lower races ? not ok, says Ham. If he had started from the Bible, he?d have realized that Caucasians weren?t the top race. He skips any mention of the fact that the Bible was used to justify slavery for centuries.

36 minutes. Students are being indoctrinated by the confusion of terms. ?You can?t observe the age of the earth. You can?t see that.? The camera finally finds the first African American face in the audience.

39 minutes. Time for Ham?s ?Seven C?s? of life: Creation, Corruption, Catastrophe, Confusion, Christ, Cross, Consummation. And no, consummation is not the sex kind. Consummation is heaven. (But speaking of sex, stick around for minute 64 ? that?s when talk about fish sex starts. Just wait for it.)

46 minutes. Nye begins: ?I learned something. Thank you.? He fails to define ?something.?

47 minutes. Nye holds up a chunk of dirt. Limestone actually. Kentucky limestone. He found it today, and says it couldn?t have existed if ?Mr. Ham?s flood? really happened only 4,000 years ago. ?Mr. Ham? is taking notes off to the side.

53 minutes. Nye explains the Kangaroo conundrum. If there was a kangaroo on Noah?s ark, and Noah?s ark landed somewhere in the middle east, and kangaroos ended up in Australia, why haven?t we found kangaroo bones somewhere between Sinai and Australia? ?Somebody would have been hopping along there and died and we?d find him.? Something like that.

58 minutes. ?Go Seahawks. That was very gratifying for me.? #NyeNonsequitor

59 minutes. Back to explaining why rock formations in Oregon prove Nye?s side of the story.

60 minutes. We?ve made an hour. Crack your neck. Stretch your shoulders. We aren?t halfway done yet. You need all your strength to press on.

cont'd...

ADG

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 02-05-2014, 10:15 AM

cont'd...

Quote:

64 minutes. Nye says ?traditional fish sex? and grabs everyone?s attention. Traditional fish sex is different from the sex that fish have with themselves, he is explaining (and not yet explaining why this is relevant to his point). Nye is now asking: ?Why does anybody have sex?? Why don?t humans just make like a rosebush and produce a flower? Or divide like bacteria? How sexy. Nye calls that question a real ?chinstroker.?

The twitterverse is already talking about ?fishionary? position. But never fear! Evolution has the answer: species that reproduce sexually have fewer parasites. How about that for motivation to get it on.

68 minutes. Nye is now talking about the Hubble telescope. But it?s impossible to stop thinking about why he brought up fish sex.

77 minutes. Our fearless moderator chimes in with six words everyone?s been thinking ?That?s a lot to take in.? Yup. So, on to the rebuttals. And counter rebuttals. And the Q. And the A.

78 minutes. Ham defends the age of the earth using Hebrew definitions of the word ?day? in the Bible. Then there?s something about 45,000 year-old wood being found in millions-of-years old basalt rock that proves his point. ?There?s no dating method you can use that you can absolutely age date a rock,? he concludes. Plus there?s only one witness that was actually there, who can actually say the truth about what happened in the past: the Word of God.

83 minutes. Ham starts his rebuttal. My livestream freezes, and then flashes neon yellow streaks, thanks to the more than 500,000 people who are tuning in as well. It pops back on in time for me to hear Nye ask Ham if all animals were vegetarian before they got on Noah?s ark.

94 minutes. The theory of evolution now appears to be hinging upon Noah?s construction skills. Ham insists that even his New England shipbuilding ancestors could not have built a ship like that. Ham: ?Why would you say Noah was unskilled? I didn?t meet Noah. Neither did you.? Drop the mic, Ham. Drop the mic.

97 minutes. Nye keeps insisting that America will fail at innovation unless people believe in evolution. America?s future is at stake! Maybe that?s why no one in the audience is laughing.

98 minutes. Now its time to move faster, says Foreman. He?s shuffling the Q&A cards. Fingers crossed that he?s right.

99 minutes. Question one for Ham: How does creationism account for celestial bodies? Ham answer: Easy. God. Perfect moment to launch into what sounds very much like an altar call. Ham is resurrecting his image as the defender of the faith to the big secular world.

102 minutes. Next question for Nye: How did the atoms that created the big bang get there? ?This is the great mystery.? Nye, cornered by the creationists. Check.

105 minutes. Ham chimes in: There actually is a book that says where matter comes from: it?s called the Bible. Mic drop #2 for Ham. Nye doesn?t flinch.

109 minutes. Another question for Nye: How did consciousness come from matter? ?Don?t know! This is a great mystery!? Mic drop #3 for Ham, even though Nye goes on and on about how much he loves mysteries.

112 minutes: Ham chimes in again: There?s a book that says where consciousness comes from too. Bet you can?t guess what that is?

120 minutes. The light. It?s at the end of the tunnel. Just 30 minutes to go before you will finally understand the origins of life. And get to go to sleep. And stop thinking about traditional fish sex.

121 minutes. Ham points out, yet again, that there are scientific papers, ?very technical papers,? on his website that explain real science. Which is creationism. Because he?s freeing the hijacked ?science.?

123 minutes: Surprise question: In one word, what?s your favorite color? Because that solves the mysteries of life.

124 minutes. Nye: ?Green,? and then he launches into an explanation of the irony that plants reflect green light. This gives Foreman his one shining moment to moderate: ?Did I not say one word answer?? Ham?s turn: ?Can I have three words since he had 300? Observational science: blue.? It?s his best line of the night.

133 minutes: Question for Ham: Do you believe the entire Bible should be taken literally? He dodges the trap. He takes the whole Bible ?naturally,? not ?literally.? There?s a difference. Basically, a difference that means, as he says, there were a lot of problems when men used Scripture to justify marrying multiple women.

146 minutes. FINAL QUESTION! What is the one thing more than anything else upon which you base your belief? Why don?t you guess what each man said. If you said, ?The Bible? for Ham and ?Science? for Nye, you are right! Nye sneaks in, for at least the fifth time, that the United States will be left standing by other countries if it doesn?t listen to science and teach real science in schools.

150 minutes. Ham and Nye agree on one thing: punctuality. 9:30pm and we are out. Foreman warns people there?s a level-two snow emergency outside. Your #TBT(uesday) to the ?90s creation culture wars is complete. You survived. Now go get some sleep.

ADG

j3rkules · 02-05-2014, 10:24 AM

no thanks...

_Richard_ · 02-05-2014, 10:27 AM

amusing how many of the scientific community who aren't 'interested in talking'

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 02-05-2014, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

amusing how many of the scientific community who aren't 'interested in talking'

Unlike members of the GFY community, many scientists don't want to waste their time arguing with scientifically illiterate people.

Quote:

There are two viewpoints here, and I think both are reasonably valid.

Dawkins takes the viewpoint that debating Creationists lends weight and credence to the Creationist's argument -- IE, 'it's worth debating.' This is a fair point.

Nye's perspective is that he'll take any interview, debate, or public appearance that's offered him with people who don't get science. He'll go on Fox News, he'll debate Ken Ham, because, to him, the people that need to hear these things aren't the people that will regularly tune in to already scientifically literate programming.

The only way to reach scientifically illiterate individuals is by engaging on their level, and within their community. This is also fair.

It basically comes down to what the individual is comfortable with -- whether they have the patience and will to go through the process and give a positive and thorough argument.

Quote:

A third viewpoint, similar to Nye's:

The only way people will learn that atheism is a viable, and preferable, alternative to delusion and faith is if they hear about and understand atheism from the mouths of atheists themselves, rather than from the mouths of religionists aiming to discredit intellectually superior individuals by creating anti-atheist stigma.

ADG

2MuchMark · 02-05-2014, 10:54 AM

I lost interest and turned it off after a while. There is no proof that you can show to a creationist that will change their mind. I hope Nye was well paid for all that time he wasted.

2MuchMark · 02-05-2014, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

I can be 100% absolutely sure than god did not create the world in 6 days about 6000 years ago.

Without any doubt whatsoever.

Not a shred of a hint of a whiff of doubt.

Piriod.

Robbie · 02-05-2014, 11:02 AM

How anybody can base their beliefs on a book from the Bronze Age written by goat herders from a small tribe of people in the desert is beyond me.

Science for the win!
Superstitions like "Christianity" are best used to keep hillbillies in line.

_Richard_ · 02-05-2014, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Unlike members of the GFY community, many scientists don't want to waste their time arguing with scientifically illiterate people.

ADG

but they are willing to waste their time arguing against scientists who do?

that makes.. very little sense.

DirtyDanza · 02-05-2014, 11:12 AM

Bill nye put ham in his place....

NewNick · 02-05-2014, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

amusing how many of the scientific community who aren't 'interested in talking'

In what way does it amuse you ?

And what is there to talk about anyway ? One side is prepared to look at the evidence, the other side is not. One side takes an open and pragmatic approach to learning about the world, and the other side declares there is a single truth that cannot be questioned, ever. Worst of all that unquestionable truth was written down several thousand years ago and is actually the word of a supernatural being.

_Richard_ · 02-05-2014, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

In what way does it amuse you ?

One side takes an open and pragmatic approach to learning about the world, and the other side declares there is a single truth that cannot be questioned, ever.

sorry, which side is which?

NewNick · 02-05-2014, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

sorry, which side is which?

Sorry but you have to be exceptionally stupid to ask that question.

But as you seem to fall into that category I will help you out with a couple of pointers.

a) Religion. A fixed truth laid down by a structured belief system.

b) Science. An evolving collection of theories and laws which are subject to change should new evidence be presented.

Does that help ?

_Richard_ · 02-05-2014, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

Sorry but you have to be exceptionally stupid to ask that question.

But as you seem to fall into that category I will help you out with a couple of pointers.

a) Religion. A fixed truth laid down by a structured belief system.

b) Science. An evolving collection of theories and laws which are subject to change should new evidence be presented.

Does that help ?

is that right?

i am talking about a group of scientists who refuse to discuss the evidence as they see it, and that suggests they 'can't be questioned, ever'.

which is funny, cause that is how they're trying to portray the ones creating discussion about it.

crockett · 02-05-2014, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

How anybody can base their beliefs on a book from the Bronze Age written by goat herders from a small tribe of people in the desert is beyond me.

Science for the win!
Superstitions like "Christianity" are best used to keep hillbillies in line.

Yet we have politicians whom have the ability to create law in this country whom believe in this non sense.. It's not just hillbillies in Kentucky. It's nutters whom have made their way to congress as well. One has even run with John McCain as his Vice President running mate. In fact Sarah Palin was open to teaching creationism is schools..

NewNick · 02-05-2014, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

is that right?

i am talking about a group of scientists who refuse to discuss the evidence as they see it, and that suggests they 'can't be questioned, ever'.

which is funny, cause that is how they're trying to portray the ones creating discussion about it.

Really. Which scientists are these ?

_Richard_ · 02-05-2014, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

Really. Which scientists are these ?

i agree, can't really call them scientists at this point, can we?

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 02-05-2014, 01:46 PM

ADG

Paully · 02-05-2014, 01:53 PM

Ken Ham reminds me of the planet of the apes guy.

Coincidence? I think he's hiding something.

pimpmaster9000 · 02-05-2014, 01:54 PM

how exactly is science a theory?

sci·ence noun \ˈsī-ən(t)s\
: knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation

how is religion NOT a theory?

re·li·gion
riˈlijən/Submit
noun
1.
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.

_Richard_ · 02-05-2014, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paully

Ken Ham reminds me of the planet of the apes guy.

Coincidence? I think he's hiding something.

stickyfingerz · 02-05-2014, 02:03 PM

I made up this this morning. lol It is now 93% Nye and 7% Ham with 31,090 votes on ChristianToday.com lmfao.

NewNick · 02-05-2014, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

i agree, can't really call them scientists at this point, can we?

So what was your point again ?

_Richard_ · 02-05-2014, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

So what was your point again ?

you are asking this, on a forum that has the entire discussion laid out?

i mean really.

davethedope · 02-05-2014, 03:20 PM

I think this is silly and agree that Nye is right to win but I also think to be smug in science doesn't help either.

Science is cold and unforgiving and it lacks the humanity which Religion is supposed to instill.

Both concepts are fairly solid, it's people who are flawed and imperfect.

But this is a fairly obvious observation.

mineistaken · 02-05-2014, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

ADG

Interesting to see that catholics are more modern than protestants. Somehow I had the opposite assumption of other way around listening how US people like to bash catholics as being conservative and not so much protestants.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 02-05-2014, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Interesting to see that catholics are more modern than protestants. Somehow I had the opposite assumption of other way around listening how US people like to bash catholics as being conservative and not so much protestants.

It depends upon the issue. I know Catholics that are conservative, and others that are liberal (and some that are conservative on some issues, and liberal on others, and vice versa), and many that don't really give a fuck about politics or religion, aside from voting and going to church as a personal matter.

Christianity is divided by many sects, and there is a wide range of disagreement even within the sects.

There are many progressive Catholics, and a leftist edge to liberation theology, which is most associated with South America, but is active in the US and other countries around the world.

ADG

NewNick · 02-06-2014, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

you are asking this, on a forum that has the entire discussion laid out?

i mean really.

No, try not to be foolish.

I am asking YOU what YOUR point was.

Not what the discussion was about.

Not what anyone else's point was.

I am asking YOU.

Because as usual you don't seem to have a point. You make numerous belligerent posts in the thread but nothing of value added. Makes you look like you argue for the sake of it. No real interest in the debate, just throwing in bits of shit to rile those that do want to contribute to the discussion.

Where do YOU stand ?

How do YOU think the world came into being ?

02-05-2014, 04:54 AM	#8
seeandsee Check SIG! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe (Skype: gojkoas) Posts: 50,945	i vote draw, because nobody cant be sure 100% __________________ BUY MY SIG - 50$/Year Contact here

02-05-2014, 04:59 AM	#10
Cherry7 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Kentucky sounds like a fun place...... __________________ My Neighbour Butterfly PORN-The Musical The Long Goodbye Cinema Erotique

02-05-2014, 06:17 AM	#12
NEW XTC Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 738	Natural selection will soon make creationists extinct. Nothing to see here. __________________ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

02-05-2014, 06:26 AM	#14
Relentless www.EngineFood.com Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,697	They paid bill nye to debate them because merely debating with them lends credibility to their otherwise absurd point of view. The same way North Korea would gladly pay a fortune for any world leader to schedule an official visit to meet with them __________________ Website Secure \| Engine Food ICQ# 266-942-896

02-05-2014, 06:43 AM	#16
arock10 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,218	Man still wrote the bible. It's not like god just fedexed them a fully written copy. So man is fallible, man wrote the bible, therefore the bible is fallible __________________ Sup

02-05-2014, 01:45 AM	#2
John-ACWM Work Work Work Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: EU Posts: 20,060	I'd watch it! Great banners presenting them! __________________ Video Chat Forum

02-05-2014, 01:47 AM	#3
Arnox Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Radelaide Posts: 2,162	I still can't believe people feel the need to discuss this. Ken Ham starts with the assumption that the Bible is true and tries to find evidence to support it. Scientists start with ... no assumptions and try to find evidence to support what they observe. I don't know why anyone would be confused about which is a more logical approach. __________________ Need Text? X Copywriters \| Adult Writing Service - [email protected]

02-05-2014, 02:05 AM	#4
CyberHustler So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 26,062	The fuck yo? I got work to do, but now ima be stuck watchin this for a couple hours... thanks

02-05-2014, 03:52 AM	#6
JockoHomo "LIKE I GIVE A SHIT" Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Dark side of the moon Posts: 1,523

02-05-2014, 03:54 AM	#7
JockoHomo "LIKE I GIVE A SHIT" Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Dark side of the moon Posts: 1,523

02-05-2014, 08:00 AM	#17
FriXion Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 37	Weird that this is a "debate" format, like there's two sides __________________ The next generation adult social network Make contact. Be present. Create Frixion. http://www.frixion.me Twitter - Facebook - AngelList email: contact at frixion.me skypeid: FriXion.me

02-05-2014, 10:24 AM	#20
j3rkules VIP Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 22,111	no thanks... __________________ How To Build A Porn Site And Make Money \| My Best $$$ Cam Sponsor \| New Webcam Script 3 Top Adult Hosting Providers

02-05-2014, 10:27 AM	#21
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 30,989	amusing how many of the scientific community who aren't 'interested in talking'

02-05-2014, 10:54 AM	#23
2MuchMark Videochat Solutions Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 49,209	I lost interest and turned it off after a while. There is no proof that you can show to a creationist that will change their mind. I hope Nye was well paid for all that time he wasted. __________________ Custom Coding \| Videochat Solutions \| Age Verification \| IT Help & Support www.2Much.net

02-05-2014, 11:02 AM	#25
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	How anybody can base their beliefs on a book from the Bronze Age written by goat herders from a small tribe of people in the desert is beyond me. Science for the win! Superstitions like "Christianity" are best used to keep hillbillies in line. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

02-05-2014, 11:12 AM	#27
DirtyDanza Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: BP4L.... Las Vegas, Posts: 8,370	Bill nye put ham in his place.... __________________ AVN Nominated Camming Couple

02-05-2014, 01:46 PM	#35
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	ADG __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)

02-05-2014, 01:53 PM	#36
Paully www.Max-Hardcore.com Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,556	Ken Ham reminds me of the planet of the apes guy. Coincidence? I think he's hiding something. __________________ CCBill Affiliates Let's Make Some Monies! Paullybadboy [@] gmail.com ICQ 631384423

02-05-2014, 01:54 PM	#37
pimpmaster9000 Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 26,732	how exactly is science a theory? sci·ence noun \ˈsī-ən(t)s\ : knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation how is religion NOT a theory? re·li·gion riˈlijən/Submit noun 1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.

02-05-2014, 02:03 PM	#39
stickyfingerz Doin fine Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 24,983	I made up this this morning. lol It is now 93% Nye and 7% Ham with 31,090 votes on ChristianToday.com lmfao.

02-05-2014, 03:20 PM	#42
davethedope Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 532	I think this is silly and agree that Nye is right to win but I also think to be smug in science doesn't help either. Science is cold and unforgiving and it lacks the humanity which Religion is supposed to instill. Both concepts are fairly solid, it's people who are flawed and imperfect. But this is a fairly obvious observation.