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Old 01-13-2018, 03:53 AM  
Paul Markham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho View Post
Notice one crucial thing - you're speaking about Muslims (a person) I'm talking about Islam (an ideology) - those are two very different things.

This is a very important distinction - Muslims do not constitute what Islam is, it goes the other way - Islam is the ideology that should rule over every aspect of their lives (and as codified in the Islamic doctrine, eventually also over those outside of Islam).

The level of dedication and piousness among the followers of any cult or ideology may move on the scale from 0 to 100 pct. or anywhere in between. Same way as someone who claims to be Christian may steal, lie and commit adultery, the same way somebody who claims to subscribe to Islam too may not act in accordance with its doctrine.

In order to decide about a level of dedication and piousness, one would have to be able to read thoughts of every single one of out of over a billion of them. Some that do not live under Islamic rule may not practice Islam at all, and one can be quite confident that many will know very little or close to nothing about the Islamic doctrine in the first place.

Anyway, to advocate or defend a totalitarian ideology based on the fact that a part of its followers do not adhere to it or know very little about it is not exactly comforting either.

This is a very bold claim worth a reaction though:

"anything to do with Sharia bullshit is extremely limited and an offshoot of most followers."

Are you aware what Sha'ria constitutes?

Most westerners may have some remote idea about an ancient legal system, that is just a part of it though. Shar'ia is a complete manual on how to run a civilization according to the doctrine of Islam. Based on the fundamental principle that the doctrine is "perfect, universal, final" and nothing can contradict it.

It can be divided into two parts one of which deals mainly with the five pillars of Islam and is mostly religious (al-ibadat) and other part that deals with "human interaction" (al-muamalat) that is practical and political and prescribes how to run a society and civilization based on the doctrine of Islam, often in the most meticulous detail.

It covers just about any situation in life, religious affairs, family, business, criminal code, rule over the Kaffir, Jihad, war and peace etc. etc. Issues that a western person may find repulsive such as child marriages (selling underage daughters into marriage), stoning for adultery, death for apostasy, first cousin marriage, wife beating, second class citizen status for women and third class citizen status for non-muslims - that all can be found there.

What is important to understand here is that everything included in such manual has to be 100 pct. in accordance with the doctrine (found in the Qu'Ran or in the Sunna of Mohammad). It's not some "extreme" application of Islam, it is Islam exactly according to its doctrine - every rule, every prescription in this manual is to be exactly found in the doctrine of Islam.

Sha'ria claims to be the only applicable God's law and is supposed to replace any and all man made form of government. It includes the Kaffir (non believers) and is supposed to rule over them (propagation of Sha'ria is even banned on legal grounds in 18 US states if I am not mistaken).

Now of course there is formal (mandated to various extent in many lands under Islamic rule) and informal application of Sha'ria (applied voluntarily in the Islamic lands and Islamic communities worldwide).

Here's a fine map that may help with getting a better idea about the influence of Sha'ria in today's Islamic world, the article includes also a nice table with details for each country:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applic...law_by_country

As you can see, in many countries the presence of Sha'ria is not formally codified in its legal system (a legacy of western presence that usually tried to add aspects of continental law), however, Islamic communities typically still apply Shar'ia among each other informally (see also Shar'ia courts in Britain or across other European Islamic communities).

According to Pew Research, the support for Sha'ria being the official law in Islamic lands among Muslims may go anywhere from 8 pct. in Azerbaidjan up to to 99 pct. in Afghanistan.

Here's even a graph:



This is an important metrics, especially if you consider some of Shari'as provisions "extreme". If these numbers would be representative, then we are certainly not talking about "extremely limited and an offshoot of most followers".

One could even ask, do we really believe that those coming from these regions will abandon such dedication to the Islamic way of running a civilization instantly the moment they set foot into a non-Islamic country? Whereas the same doctrine commands them to "migrate in the name of Allah"?
Add the UK and probably all Western countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ity-sharia-law

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/73...-UK-Islam-poll

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7...muslims-survey

Read it and see the truth about how they think.

Quote:
The 615-page survey found that more than 100,000 British Muslims sympathize with suicide bombers and people who commit other terrorist acts. Moreover, only one in three British Muslims (34%) would contact the police if they believed that somebody close to them had become involved with jihadists.
Idiots like Thommy want to allow more in to "educate" them out of Islam.
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